MBNA saga. help would be much appreicated.

[seeker]

Ricky;



Definitely do the VoD and DEMAND the proof. They have none. I am currently dealing with anotherbandit, Gerald Moore and Associates. They are actually on the most wanted lost for edleman, combs, et al for seeking litgation against -- I am going to supply evidence for them. You may want to check theirsite as well. I expect to see Wolpoff listed there soon.

Anyway, I have responded several times to GM demanding he cease and desist and prove his claim. He has not. In fact, in April, he sent a claim form from the NAF, I responded and he sent a cc in June a notice of suspension, this last week, he again sent the same mailing as in April, again undated. I am fed up with dealing with him and will turn the "evidence" over to Daniel Edleman and let him file FDCPA violations against him. HE says that the communications from GM are most probably NOT from an attorney. Also, I'd like a few hints on who to file complaints with -- ie., Attoney Generals of each state involved, FTC, Postmaster General from mail fraud, how and to whom? Suggestions?



Interested to here how Participant913 is doing.



Seeker

[RICKY]

SEEKER,



THANX FOR GETTING BACK.



I'LL CHECK OUT THE WEBSITE. HAVE YOU READ GRISHAM'S KING OF TORTS? MAYBE THERE SHOULD BE A CLASS ACTION SUIT STARTED. I WOULD THINK LAWYERS ON LAWYERS WOULD MAKE FOR A WONDERFUL COLOSEUM EVENT...!



ANYWAY, I'M NOT IN A POSITION TO HELP YOU YET ON WITH WHOM YOU SHOULD FILE, OTHER THAN SOMEWHERE IN THE FORUMS OR DOWNLOADS I REMEMBER SEEING SOMETHING ABOUT FILING COMPLAINTS WITH DIFFERRENT OFFICIAL BODIES.



ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS IS THAT I SENT MY QUESTIONS TO MBNA ( JERSEEE REALLY DUG INTO ME FOR WHAT I WAS ASKING, RATHER THAN JUST KEEPING IT SIMPLE AND ASKING FOR VERIFICATION.), AND THEY NEVER RESPONDED BUT TURNED THE 2 ACCOUNTS RIGHT OVER TO THE ATTORNEYS. NO RESPONSE FROM MBNA AT ALL. SINCE THAT FIRST LETTER I HAVE SENT THEM A SIMPLE REQUEST FOR VERIFICATION OF THE DEBT AND AM WAITING TO HEAR FROM THEM.



MEANWHILE, I AM DRAFTING A VOD LETTER FOR W&A. WOULD YOU INCLUDE A REQUEST TO SEE THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT SIGNED BY THEIR AGENT AND MYSELF THAT CONTRACTED ME TO THE THE DEBT? IF THEY WON'T SEND IT TO ME I AM GOING TO ASK TO BE GIVEN A CONTACT NAME AND LOCATION AND PHONE NUMBER SO I, OR MY AGENT, CAN VIEW IT. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?



THE WHO SIGNED MY LETTERS FROM THEM SIGNS WITH "NAME , ESQ.", THEN BELOW IT, "ADMITTED: (MD, DC). IT APPEARS TO BE A COPY OF A FORM LETTER AND A COPIED SIGNATURE.



ON THE REVERSE THE LETTER STATES:

Under the law we are required to inform you of the following information:

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing -

(1) the amount of the debt;



(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;



(3) unless you, within thirty days after receipt of this notice, dispute the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by this office;



(4) if you notify us in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, we will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against you and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to you by us; and



(5) upon your written request within the thirty-day period, we will provide you with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.



(b) If you notify us in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) of this section that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that you request the name and address of the original creditor, we shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until we obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to you by us.



(c) The failure of you to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by you.



This is an attempt by a debt collector to collect a debt and any information obtained will be used for that purpose.



THEREFORE, I DON'T DISPUTE THE DEBT, MERELY REQUIRE THE VERIFICATION. IS IT PARAMOUNT THAT I SEND A GOOD FAITH OFFER OF PAYMENT? IS THAT WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING AND WHAT HAS BEEN THE RESULT?



THIS WAS LONG..THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ AND RESPOND, SEEKER. AND THE SAME TO THE OTHERS OF YOU THAT CHOSE TO DO SO.



RICKY

[Jerseee]

RIcky,



Get a notary involeved with you and use your remedy to satisfy the alleged debt. Let them break the law. Gather your evidence and state your counter claim.



If these guys want to rollover people--make sure their doing it on a cliff.



Are the CRAs involved at all?

[RICKY]

JERSEEE, SEEKER:



BELOW IS WHAT I'M WORKING ON SENDING TO W&A. SHALL I INCLUDE A CPN? IT WOULD SHOW GOOD FAITH.



I STILL HAVE A VOD OUT TO MBNA WITHNO RESPONSE YET. I MAY NOT GET ONE SINCE THEY HAVE SENT IT TO W&A.



[



RICKSTER

C/O MY HOME. NE

USA



AUGUST 5, 2004



KELLY E. McBETH, ESQ.

TWO IRVING CENTRE

702 KING FARM BLVD.

ROCKVILLE, MD 20850-5775



Via U.S.P.S. Certified Mail #XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX



DEAR KELLY E. McBETH:



RE: W & A FILES xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx & xxxxxxxxxxxx



Regarding the above referenced files, this letter is a request to provide me (1) Certified Verification of alleged debt(s), (2) name and address of the alleged creditor(s), (3) amount(s) allegedly owed to the alleged original creditor(s), and (4) the location(s), phone number(s) and name(s) of contact(s) where I, or my duly appointed agent(s), may personally view the contract(s) signed by the alleged original creditor(s) and myself whereby we both agreed to alleged debt(s).



I can neither dispute or uphold an unverified debt. If you, within 30 days after receipt of this request, have not provided me with the a true certified verification of the alleged debt(s), the alleged debt(s) will be assumed unverifiable and invalid.



For clarification, (definitions from Black's, 7th Ed.):

Certify, vb. 1. To authenticate or verify in writing;

Verification, n. 1. A formal declaration made in the presence of an authorized officer, such as a notary public, by which one swears to the truth of the statements in the document.



Sincerely,



RICKY]



WORDS BACK?



THANX, RICKY

ricky,



1) your letter seems good to me (jerseee is really the "final" authority on that) - i skimmed it quickly.

2) i would drop the "signed by the..." part of your first paragraph and end it at "contract(s)." you are looking for full disclosure really, as well as an unmodified and recoverable original instrument.

3) you have a grammatical error in your second paragraph - reread slowly.



lastly, would you mind using upper/lower case in your typing? the ALL CAPS is the written equiv. of shouting...



hth,



jon



p.s. are you in maryland as well?

[iamfreeru2]

Ricky,



I have dealt with MBNA in the past myself. I have an arbitration award against them. When I was first contacted by their attorney. I demanded a copy of the actual "account general ledger" showing where the "money" came from to fund the loan. It was unsecured and was in the amount of some $20,000. I went through an arbitration company and when I got the arbitration award and sent to the attorney asking them to send me the "actual general ledger" again to verify the claimed debt, they went away. It has been about six months now and nothing.



iamfreeru2

[seeker]

Two things:



Ricky -- ask for VALIDATION, not verification -- they will provide an affidavit with some no name employee who will swear it is a "True accounting", which is NOT what you want -- you want them to validate the debt by providing ORIGINAL documentation with two signatures that form a binding contract -- they won't find one. Check out the Johson v MBNA that just came out of the Court of Appeals in Feb. They know they are supposed to be able to produce this, but they also know they cannot.

SECOND; befree -- what arbitration company did you use? Some third, fourth, fifth party collector is trying to invite me to arbitrate with NAF -- those "honest guys!" LOL, and wouldn't it be peachy if I could instead invite them to MY arbitrator???



Just a thought. No validation is ever forth coming.

An aside, has anyone heard of some law, notice whatever regarding 180 days aging of an account making it unclaimable or some such? One of these accounts was over two years sitting before a DCA took it on. (NOw pushing this arbitration thing) He did not validate the debt. Still looking for those agencies/individuals to file complaints with -- anyone?



Seeker

[sadie]

seeker



The 180 days that I know of is for the original creditor - eg MBNA - that's when they have to charge off the account. It should show up that way on your credit report.



They can send it to their own collection dept or farm it out to an agency or sell it off. The statute of limitations in your state will say how long someone may try to collect.

I'm not sure when the clock starts - when your fisrt stop paying or 180 days later when they charge it off as bad debt.



Try checking the FCRA and the FCBA. I will do the same and see what I find there.

[seeker]

Thanks, Sadie! I have been looking over great portions of the FDCPA, but have never found that refrence. How do we know if the debt has been charged off and how does this effect ourstatus?

Also, I have been looking for the thread that had the names and addresses of the CRA contact person, and cannot find it ...any help?



Thanks.

I am preparing a detailed final notice to each CRA asking for removal of items that have been settled by notarial protest and by setlltement. And then asking them to investigate the ones not validated -- the entire list. I am finding duplicate accounts, and stuff I have no idea of -- so that's what I told them -- I do not recognize these accounts;validate them with certified documents and names, numbers etc for the living soul who provided it.



I followed a link from this forum to www.creditcourt.com and though she seems a bit out there, there is some excellent case cite links contained there. Lots of litigation against CRAs, etc. Worth a look.



Thanks again.



Seeker

[RICKY]

jERSEEE, SEEKER, JON, IAMFREERU2,



THANKS FOR YOUR INDIVIDUAL THOUGHTS ON THIS MBNA/W&A THING. I WILL BE GETTING IT OFF IN THE MAIL TODAY.



JON-

'M NOT SHOUTING AT YOU OR ANYONE, IT'S JUST THE WAY I TYPE AND DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT GETTING THE CAPS IN THE RIGHT PLACE.



ALSO, I'M NOT IN MARYLAND.



IAMFREERU2,

HOW DID YO LOCATE YOUR ARBITRATION COMPANY? IT APPEARS YOU TURNED THEIR OWN TABLE ON THEM. GOOD MOVE. SO WHAT DID YOU ARBITRATE?



SEEKER,

I AM ASKING FOR CERTIFICATION OF THE "DEBT", NOT ACCOUNT IN #(1) AND I THOUGHT I WAS, IN ESSENCE, ASKING FOR "VALIDATION" IN #(4), IN WHICH I WAS ASKING FOR LOCATIONS OF THE CONTRACTS. I'LL RELOOK AT THIS.



I SAVED AN EARLIER POST OF YOURS, FORGIVE ME FOR HOARDING IT, WHICH FOLLOWS:

Write the letter, sit back for a while then read it again -- read it as if you were receiving it -- what action are you demanding? What would you need to do to fulfill it? Are you using the correct words? VERIFY -- not validate. Alleged -- not Dispute -- As Jerseee says do NOT argue -- demand their proof! According to law/code -"the burden of proof lies with the person making the allegation" So always remember -- PROOF IT!



IN THIS POST YOU ARE ESPOUSING VERIFICATION, NOT VALIDATION. WHY THE CHANGE NOW? I'M NOT COMBATIVE HERE, JUST CURIOUS.



ALSO, IS THE POINT YOU WANT ME TO GET OUT OF JOHNSON V. MBNA, - THAT THEY COULD NOT PRODUCE A CONTRACT?



THANKS TO ALL FOR YOUR INPUT.



RICKY