Judgment Debtor Exams and the 5th Ammendent

I have a question about Judgment Debtor Exams and our right to keep silent and not incriminate ourselves. After a credit card company wins a judgment against a debtor, I've heard that they will sometimes use a Judgment Debtor Exam to compel the debtor to come to court and answer personal questions about what they own, where they work, etc. I've also heard that people in certain states, Missouri in particular, have been using the 5th Ammendment right to keep silent to thwart these debtor exams. Will this approach work in every state as well?


Quote from a very aggressive debt collector website: "In Missouri they [Debtor Exams] are generally a waste of time, as the debtors assert their 5th amendment rights and don't answer. If you are clever you get a grant of immunity from the county prosecutor, and that can short-circuit that trick. Also, I always have a general execution and a sheriff on hand so I can take their wallet and watch. Funny (unless they are up on their personal exemptions)."

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by Kipsy

I have a question about Judgment Debtor Exams and our right to keep silent and not incriminate ourselves. After a credit card company wins a judgment against a debtor, I've heard that they will sometimes use a Judgment Debtor Exam to compel the debtor to come to court and answer personal questions about what they own, where they work, etc. I've also heard that people in certain states, Missouri in particular, have been using the 5th Ammendment right to keep silent to thwart these debtor exams. Will this approach work in every state as well?

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The 5th Amendment does not apply to testimony in CIVIL proceedings, such as a debtor's exam.

Perhaps a logical response to AndyK's accurate comeback:

Yes [your honor?] I will accept what you are saying as true. However, being knowledgeable in the law of these times of National Emergency, would you not agree that collusion, extortion, threats, intimidation and racketeering all rise to the level of a criminal case? Certainly, being knowledgeable in the law, you are well aware that an affidavit amounts to testimony and I assert my God-given unalienable right not to be compelled to testify against that that I am. For is it not written in His Law that if I bear witness of my SELF, my witness is not true? You are asking me to commit an adultery against my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. That is the law I recognize, not your silly little constitution that has been effectively nullified, any way.

Yet, even in your code, one of your citizens has a fifth amendment privilege, codified into your fourteenth amendment privilege under the due process clause, even for those of you who worship at the alter of reorganized bancruptcy.

The bottom line is: No one can compel you to sign any document under threat of force or confinement without breaking the law themselves ... PERIOD. That doesn't mean that it's not done everyday in the courts.

STOP LETTING THEM DO IT. Make them break the law on the record with plenty of witnesses.

I might add that I think a more appropriate clause of the fifth amendment is the following:

"except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger" ... WAR POWERS ANYONE??!!

Sincerely,
truth

[Judge Roy Bean]

Originally Posted by Kipsy

I have a question about Judgment Debtor Exams and our right to keep silent and not incriminate ourselves. After a credit card company wins a judgment against a debtor, I've heard that they will sometimes use a Judgment Debtor Exam to compel the debtor to come to court and answer personal questions about what they own, where they work, etc. I've also heard that people in certain states, Missouri in particular, have been using the 5th Ammendment right to keep silent to thwart these debtor exams. Will this approach work in every state as well?

The inference you make when you use the 5th Amendment right during a civil proceding is that you believe there are potential criminal liabilities associated with providing the testimony and you don't wish to incriminate yourself in that regard. The process suggested below is routine in cases involving large dollar amounts and debtors with a reputation. Then again, there are prosecutors who wouldn't piss on a collections attorney if they were on fire.

Note - any attorney trying the alleged "take the wallet and watch" stunt is risking way more than the average watch and wallet are worth. And, FYI - state laws vary on exempt property.

Originally Posted by Kipsy

Quote from a very aggressive debt collector website: "In Missouri they [Debtor Exams] are generally a waste of time, as the debtors assert their 5th amendment rights and don't answer. If you are clever you get a grant of immunity from the county prosecutor, and that can short-circuit that trick. Also, I always have a general execution and a sheriff on hand so I can take their wallet and watch. Funny (unless they are up on their personal exemptions)."

[Shoonra]

The Fifth Amendment ploy has also been used by tax evaders, alimony dodgers, etc. The courts have heard it all.

The Fifth Amendment is only available for information that could lead to incriminating evidence. If the judge doubts the sincerity of your claim of the Fifth, he may ask you to describe, at least in very general terms, how certain information (such as your place of employment) could incriminate you. There have been plenty of times when the judges have ordered debtors to answer the questions, and tossed them in jail for contempt if they still balked .... just as if they had incriminated themselves.

[charlesa6]

Kipsy, welcome to the forum.

[mrg]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

The Fifth Amendment ploy has also been used by tax evaders, alimony dodgers, etc. The courts have heard it all.

The Fifth Amendment is only available for information that could lead to incriminating evidence. If the judge doubts the sincerity of your claim of the Fifth, he may ask you to describe, at least in very general terms, how certain information (such as your place of employment) could incriminate you. There have been plenty of times when the judges have ordered debtors to answer the questions, and tossed them in jail for contempt if they still balked .... just as if they had incriminated themselves.

Thank you sir, may I have another?

[charlesa6]

Originally Posted by Kipsy

I have a question about Judgment Debtor Exams and our right to keep silent and not incriminate ourselves. After a credit card company wins a judgment against a debtor, I've heard that they will sometimes use a Judgment Debtor Exam to compel the debtor to come to court and answer personal questions about what they own, where they work, etc.

Asset discovery, they call it.

Originally Posted by Shoonra

The Fifth Amendment ploy has also been used by tax evaders, alimony dodgers, etc. The courts have heard it all.

The Fifth Amendment is only available for information that could lead to incriminating evidence. If the judge doubts the sincerity of your claim of the Fifth, he may ask you to describe, at least in very general terms, how certain information (such as your place of employment) could incriminate you. There have been plenty of times when the judges have ordered debtors to answer the questions, and tossed them in jail for contempt if they still balked .... just as if they had incriminated themselves.

Thanks for the info. I guess I had better not use that tactic. But I do think some of my answers might come back to bite me in the ass.

I'm mainly just doing some research into this issue for what might happen to me in the next few months. I owe over $12,000 to a credit card company, and they are threatening to sue me for it, so I started looking up info about what would happen to me if they did file a lawsuit against me and won, and I stumbled upon this Judgment Debtor Exam.

My next question is this... how often do credit companies use the Judgment Debtor Exam to find assets and employment records, etc. ? It seems like they could find the information easier and quickly, and less expensively by hiring a private investigator or something like that.

P.S.-- thanks for the welcome.

It does not matter that they can hire someone to get the information about you. The truth is THERE IS NO MONEY, so they need to intimidate you into "voluntary compliance" by providing your personal privileged information on your own.

After having asked them (in pleadings) to vacate a judgment because there is no competent affidavit or evidence of debt in the record, explain that you would be more than happy to sign their affidavit, IF YOU COULD FIRST please provide me with the statute, rule or common law holding that demonstrates that you can force me using threat of confinement to affix my signature to any document under pains or penalty of perjury? Please comprehend that I am not "refusing" to sign, I am happy to sign, just show me the law.

Sincerely,
truth