SEEMING CONTRADICTION: NO DISPUTE YET VERIFICATON?

I've read and re-read many of the threads on this site and have learned a tremendous amount. Thanks to the usual suspects: Ice, SJ, Jerseee, Kgod, HB, Seeker, Tora, Research1, Squirrels, Logos, Randy, and even The Man (for confirming for me the "weenie factor" among those out there who do not dare), et. al.



One thing I still don't get: If we say that we are not disputing the debt, and have even gone so far as to discharge it via CPN or BoE, then why would we insist on certified verification or seeing the original Note? I can see an attorney turning this around on us in court or depos.



Also, why ask for "certified verification" of the debt? I thought only originals would do?



If I am missing something glaringly obvious here, blame it on the lack of sleep.



B.



When the student is ready, the teacher appears.[quote]

I've read and re-read many of the threads on this site and have learned a tremendous amount. Thanks to the usual suspects: Ice, SJ, Jerseee, Kgod, HB, Seeker, Tora, Research1, Squirrels, Logos, Randy, and even The Man (for confirming for me the "weenie factor" among those out there who do not dare), et. al.



One thing I still don't get: If we say that we are not disputing the debt, and have even gone so far as to discharge it via CPN or BoE, then why would we insist on certified verification or seeing the original Note? I can see an attorney turning this around on us in court or depos.



Also, why ask for "certified verification" of the debt? I thought only originals would do?



If I am missing something glaringly obvious here, blame it on the lack of sleep.



B.



When the student is ready, the teacher appears.[i][b]

[Ice]

hmmm...



Can you think of better certified verification than an original contract? But remember, verification of a debt and a "contract" issue (like loans) are handled differently... slight as it may be.



Ice

True enough. However, it seems we're putting the cart before the horse. Why tender a CPN or BoE if verification has not been obtained? By doing so it plays into the hands of attorneys who claim that these instruments are worthless, a ruse, as evidenced by the fact that we so readily tender them without verificiaton.



Regarding verification v. contract (loan), any further explication on the difference is always welcome.



Admin issues: 1) How do I insert my tag? 2) I am not being notified of replies though I am choosing that option. How do I cure? 3) There seem to be several blocked authors in My Preferences, Ice you among them. I do not wish to block anyone. How do I unblock? Thanks.



B.

Got the tag thing figured out...clearly.

by tendering a CPN or BoE prior to certified verification (that being pending), you have:



1) acted in good faith;

2) settled the matter regardless of outcome.



think on it.



jon

buscandor:



With regard to the cart before the horse comment, consider this, one can still tender a note "promissory note" and or present a surety bond in the event an alleged creditor is damaged while you create and execute an administrative remedy.



Most of the members of this forum are well aware of the fact that alleged lending institutions to no lend but the manifest credit based upon the borrowers promissory note.



One of main issues one could address, especially with regard to unsecured debt is the simple fact that alleged borrowers notes are NOT "taken for value". I suggest everyone look this term up if they are not familiar with it.



In actuality, the use of certified notes, drafts, bills of exchange or the like are unnecessary if you take a closer look. There are so many remedies available -- stautorialy, administrative and so forth. The use of a draft, bill of exchange or note is more-so an attempt at a quick fix as opposed to addressing the matter at the source: Lending institutions according or their respective service providers are already paid according to the bookkeeping entries.



This of course brings forth the question, why use a boe or note to discharge an account that has already been settled?



So again, the use of a bond or note "may" be used with regard to administrating a remedy even when asking for Validation/Verification on an alleged outstanding balance due, however, it is not necessary.



Moreover, the tendering of a note of surety bond is an offer of good faith, which demonstrates intention, and further establishing one's honor.



R1

[Ice]

Absolutely. When dealing with a bank or "loan" type situation... there is no need to tender any sort of instrument. We know the score here. That is a matter that can be dealt with in court.



Personally, I see no reason to tender anything in any other situation... except that it demonstrates "good faith". It is all a matter of choice in regards to non-loan issues.

Ice:



I know you are up to speed on this subject and regarding the use of instruments. The only thing that I use consistantly anymore are surety bonds only as an insurance policy of sort in the event there is a damged party resutling from my administrative remedy(ies).



R1

[Jerseee]

Research1,



It is an option to use the note (CPN) or any other instrument in concert with a demand for verification. You are too focused on the consideration and good faith offer and you are missing the whole offensive move.



I advocate doing both at one time. It slays the dragon and quiets the crowd.



1. Doing a demand of verification is honorable and a right

2. Demanding verification and providing a tender avoids dishonor and traps the liar.

a. it avoids dishonor by the intention of good faith

b. it traps the liar because if they return the tender--they are in dishonor of your note; if the accept the tender and keep coming for payment and do not return it--it is theft

3. doing both avoids a dispute--THIS IS THE KEY



If there is no controversy--there is no case.



It is a power move and it gets results. Now the avenue you have mentioned is a viable one as well--but you allow an argument to develop somewhere down the line. My method--catches them with their pants down and something hot in their mouths!



I don't play with them in their sandbox very nice.