Citizenship

[Jerry Pitts]

Let us bypass all of the wannabe attorneys and those that are actual attorneys and go straight to the horses mouth, so to speak, in regard to the subject of 'Citizenship'. The link will allow you to access a pdf (too large to upload to the forum) entitled "Citizenship Laws of the World".

http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/documents/IS-01.pdf

A very informative read on the subject matter.

Jerry Carlos

[heyday]

I downloaded it and will read it later

[Jerry Pitts]

Originally Posted by heyday

I downloaded it and will read it later

Good. From the first half that I have read, it appears that this will definitely end the debates on the issue of "citizenship" as it is used in a secular society using secular law. Also, because it is of International design and usage, it is applicable in all of the countries that are listed therein (each having their own peculiar twists, thus preventing any country from having an absolute definition that is universally accepted). However, due to the fact that this forum is primarily interested in US law, then it would probably suit everyone to read only that portion of the manuscript.

Jerry Carlos

[Shoonra]

Here's a very recent decision by the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, reinstating a case involving the laws regarding renunciation of US citizenship during wartime:

http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/commo...59-1114314.pdf

[Friendsplacect]

Is the United States in wartime?

[Jerry Pitts]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

Here's a very recent decision by the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, reinstating a case involving the laws regarding renunciation of US citizenship during wartime:

http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/commo...59-1114314.pdf

"In sum, we do not understand the government to suggest that a congressionally created right can be nullified by government inaction.
Reversed and remanded."

Yes Shoonra. It was remanded (meaning it is open for more litigating. But, because it was reversed (the lower court decision), Would mean that everything is back to square one, and nothing has changed. The statutory right is still in place, and seemingly, the only question in the mind of the court is whether or not 'the attorney general still has authority or was his/her authority stripped when the duties were allegedly transferred to Homeland Security.

So what is the point that you are attempting to stress with this go nowhere case?

Jerry Carlos

[Shoonra]

"The point", such as it was, was simply that here was a recent decision relevant to citizenship. And it's not exactly a nothing decision; it found fault with the previous decision and that is something useful.

[Jerry Pitts]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

"The point", such as it was, was simply that here was a recent decision relevant to citizenship. And it's not exactly a nothing decision; it found fault with the previous decision and that is something useful.

Good point Shoonra, it could be useful to 'us'. Of course when a lawyer/attorney speaks, one of us un-skilled know nothings, certainly never know which side of the fence you are playing on except for the fact that as long as you are practicing, you hold a primary allegiance to the court/corporation.

Jerry Carlos

[Shoonra]

I found that the US Dept of State has issued a fact sheet for Americans considering renouncing their US citizenship:

http://travel.state.gove/law/citizen...html?css=print

Among the important information in that fact sheet is that 18 USC §1481(a)(5) specifies that

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:
1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
3. sign an oath of renunciation.

Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. .... Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail ... or while in the United States. ....

A person who wants to renounce U.S. citizenship cannot decide to retain some of the privileges of citizenship, as this would be logically inconsistent with the concept of renunciation. ....

[T]he fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his her U.S. tax or military service obligations.... In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship will not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as United States citizens abroad. ...

Finally, those contemplating a renunciation of U.S. citizeship should understand that the act is {generally} irrevocable. .....

[netwrkranger]

I believe what Shoonra is failing to tell us all is that citizenship is political while nationality is lawful.

Citizenship is the membership to a political body. Nationality is the membership to a lawful nation.

Oh... and the United States? That is the federal corporation known as UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INC. occupying the District of Columbia.

My two cents,
netwrkranger