Question on traffic ticket court - Page 5

Jerry Pitts · #41 05-30-2008, 10:57 PM

Most excellent venture... Bravo.

Just wish I could take some of that credit you are thanking everyone for. You did good ...

Jerry Carlos
Ambassador of Jesus, the Christ.

Livefire · #42 05-31-2008, 05:11 AM

EXCELLENT JOB freedom found!!!! My take on this is that this judge realized you had called him on the carpet by asking about the oath and taking notice of it. After double checking his reference material, he realized that the AZ DoT has to conduct an administrative hearing before any sort judicial review can be conducted IAW the state's APA act. His jurisdiction in the instant matter was all smoke and mirrors at this point. Just keep a close eye on the docket so that the ba$tard doesn't try to make a ruling against you in absentia without any notice! I noticed the affair hasn't been dismissed, merely adjourned so that he can figure out how to fry your backside without burning himself in the process.

FreeFromContract · #43 05-31-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawdog

Set down the Kool-Aid right now!!!!

This is exactly the kind of knucklehead attitude that gets people in trouble. YOU do not have the right, power, or authority to schedule any dates and times for any hearings in this case. You are the defendant. The judge (or someone working for him, like his calendar clerk) sets the dates and times for motion hearings and trial. Even assuming the judge actually received and read your nonsense, he is under no obligation to respond to it, and his silence is not "consent."

You are playing with fire, kiddo. Not too long ago, a poster on this board named "planetmark" decided he could file some gibberish paperwork and thereby "default" the authorities in Washington state who had awarded custody of his kids to his ex-wife. He ended up spending a year in jail after being arrested for interference with a custodial order and attempted kidnapping when he went to collect the kids pursuant to his self-issued "order". He was either found guilty or pleaded guilty. I checked with the Washington authorities' online database and verified his convictions.

You're on the fast track to having your license suspended and/or having a warrant issued for your arrest if you fail to appear at the times and dates set BY THE COURT. Try these little nonsense games in court, and you could be held in contempt, which means you get fines and/or jail time above and beyond whatever fines and jail time you may be facing with the ticket.

Rule number one when you're in a hole is this: STOP DIGGING. So stop digging your own grave, metaphorically speaking.

And as usual you show ignorance when dealing with specific issues brought up which are outside your narrow realm of knowledge.

Maybe you should study up on the admin code and lose the adolescent attitude (I know everything) and mentality (everyone else is stupid).

Lawdog · #44 05-31-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freedom found

I told him, that is fine, he then said, I need you to sign this (bench order for the hearing).

That right there tells me that at least some of what "freedom found" says happened never did. Since when do bench orders have to be signed by the person at whom they are directed? In a criminal case that results in a conviction, a judge will sign the order that says the convicted person will be on probation or sent to jail (or prison) for X number of months or years. Neither the defendant nor his lawyer have to sign it.

Another gaffe made by "freedom found" in a later post on this thread: he claimed the justice of the peace said he was "duly elected and appointed." Bzzzzt! Alarm bells going off; bulls**t has been detected. He might be an elected official, or he might be appointed. But he's not both.

Kiddo, I've been a lawyer for almost ten years. You can't embellish your version of what happened with a judge or justice of the peace with a bunch of fantasy elements and expect me to fall for it. I'm much more skeptical than your "sovrun citizun" buddies...not to mention a lot better educated.

P.S. to Free from Contract: Show me how any state's administrative procedures act applies to traffic tickets (or any other criminal offense) and I'll concede the point. Administrative procedures acts relate to executive branch agencies that exercise quasi-judicial authority, like the State Board of Workers' Compensation. When you're in a court, including a justice of the peace court, you're going to be using a different set of rules, typically the state's criminal procedure code.

freedom found · #45 05-31-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawdog

That right there tells me that at least some of what "freedom found" says happened never did. Since when do bench orders have to be signed by the person at whom they are directed? In a criminal case that results in a conviction, a judge will sign the order that says the convicted person will be on probation or sent to jail (or prison) for X number of months or years. Neither the defendant nor his lawyer have to sign it.

Another gaffe made my "freedom found" in a later post on this thread: he claimed the justice of the peace said he was "duly elected and appointed." Bzzzzt! Alarm bells going off; bulls**t has been detected. He might be an elected official, or he might be appointed. But he's not both.

Kiddo, I've been a lawyer for almost ten years. You can't embellish your version of what happened with a judge or justice of the peace with a bunch of fantasy elements and expect me to fall for it. I'm much more skeptical than your "sovrun citizun" buddies...not to mention a lot better educated.

P.S. to Free from Contract: Show me how any state's administrative procedures act applies to traffic tickets (or any other criminal offense) and I'll concede the point. Administrative procedures acts relate to executive branch agencies that exercise quasi-judicial authority, like the State Board of Workers' Compensation. When you're in a court, including a justice of the peace court, you're going to be using a different set of rules, typically the state's criminal procedure code.

First of all, do not call me kiddo, I have put many lawyers with allot more experiance then you out to dry in open court while I was a police officer, your education means crap to me, if all else fails, I know I can out shoot you, out run you and out fight you, if you want to get real and take it to that level, name the time and the place, I will meet you there. You talk the talk, lets go for a walk.

As for the rest of your claims, when I get a resolution to this case, I will happy to give you contact numbers, and case number, you can verify every single claim I have made here. And I do mean every single claim, big man.

Lawdog · #46 05-31-2008, 04:39 PM

Oooh, now you've got me scared. Not.

You think that just because I'm a lawyer it necessarily follows that I'm a wimp? Not so, chuckles. I'm a Southern boy. I learned to shoot a gun at age 12. The fact that you used to be a cop means next to nothing as far as shooting skills go; many cops learn to shoot well enough to qualify and to keep qualifying as long as they are on the force but don't practice when they don't have to. In my hometown there's a big yearly pistol shooting competition open to civilians as well as cops. I don't think a cop has won it in ten years.

I learned how to fight, too. Muay Thai kickboxing. A very brutal and effective martial art.

As for running? No, I've never been a fast runner. Too white and too short. But when you know how to fight and how to shoot, you don't have to run.

FreeFromContract · #47 05-31-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawdog

P.S. to Free from Contract: Show me how any state's administrative procedures act applies to traffic tickets (or any other criminal offense) and I'll concede the point. Administrative procedures acts relate to executive branch agencies that exercise quasi-judicial authority, like the State Board of Workers' Compensation. When you're in a court, including a justice of the peace court, you're going to be using a different set of rules, typically the state's criminal procedure code.

Fair enough LD.

It appears from Freedom Found's post that the APA is working in conjunction with ARS 28 which "grants sole jurisdiction of all highways in Arizona to the Department of Transportation". On the basis of the ADT having original jurisdiction, it appears there is procedure to administratively challenge the ticket.

Clearly you're already challenging most, if not all, of Freedom Found's post as BS. But at this point it's only your opinion against his statements.

If an official record of the transcript is available then perhaps we will see it here soon.

Livefire · #48 05-31-2008, 05:53 PM

That was my point exactly concerning the state APA

rottweiler · #49 06-01-2008, 04:08 AM

When you requested a court of record that is what forces the JP to sign your motion. He doesn't really have a choice but to sign it because you have the right to the common law and a court of record in the superior court is where you will find it. All you got to do is sue all the people involved for writing that ticket for your costs in the court of record. When you mentioned the JP's bond he realized he was being set-up for a lawsuit and he knew you would have a case. The JP and his inferior court can make no ruling when it comes to sustantive rights. He must sign your motion. See Miranda v. Arizona.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by freedom found

I said, "In my motion, I requested a court of record, will this hearing be on the record?" He said he was not a Superior court and could not hold a court of record." I said, well, I want in on the record.

He said it would be recorded and I said that would be agreeable.

At this, his clerk let out an audible HUF and unlocked the door to the court room. (We were still at the front counter up till now).

The court started, after admitting my motion into the record, I asked the JP, "Are you bonded?" he started with the stammering and looking around again, and said something about the insurance policy and he was elected and dully appointed..."

I asked, "What does the insurance policy cover?" He said he did not know. I asked, "You do not know?"
JP: "No, you will need to ask an attorney."
Me: "You have an insurance policy, but you do not know what it covers? That is strange...where it the policy at?"
JP: The county has it.
Me: "So you are not Bonded?"
JP: "I have not purchased a bond with my own funds. And I am not going to answer any more of your questions about it. You need to ask an attorney."
Me: "Aren't you an attorney?" (I knew he was a prosecutor for the county before becoming JP)
JP: "Yes"
Me: "You are still a member of the Bar?"
JP: "Yes, this has nothing to do with the case, I will not answer any more of your questions about it."

Me: "Okay, did you take an oath of Office?
JP: "yes"
Me: "Did you, in your oath, swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States and of Arizona?"

rottweiler · #50 06-01-2008, 04:08 AM

Go to the 15 minute mark of Motions, Track 9. Your situation is somewhat different but knowledge can be gleaned from it.

I would file a counterclaim in the superior court of record right now. Then I would set the time and date for a hearing again and announce at the hearing that the Superior Court is now open and in session and that you have a order for the JP to sign releasing jurisdiction from his court to the Superior Court.