Question on traffic ticket court

[freedom found]

Background: I recieved a citation for speeding in Arizona.

I wanted to file a NOTICE OF CONDITIONAL acceptance and acceptance for value, and return the copy of the citation, but I had lost my copy of the citation.
I went to the court and got a copy of the citation, there was a docket number written on the citation AFTER I had signed it.

In my Notice of conditional acceptance and acceptance for value, I gave notice of the change on the Citation and asked for a clarification if this rendered the original citation VOID.

I also accepted the citation for value and returned it without dishonor and I signed it "without prejudice" and filed it with the court.

Today, I was mailed a BENCH ORDER which said my notice of Conditional acceptance was "considered a motion to dismiss" and a hearing is now set on my motion.

So, what do I do now?

[joseph sugarman]

If you do not know what you are doing, why are you doing anything?

You should get educated before you take on the system; not while you are foundering with it.

[freedom found]

Originally Posted by joseph sugarman

If you do not know what you are doing, why are you doing anything?

You should get educated before you take on the system; not while you are foundering with it.

I do know what I am going, as I was a police officer for 7 years here in Arizona. I have plenty of experiance and I do not need help getting out of this or any ticket in court, I was trained by the system how to write them and how they can be beaten. That is not my intent. I am trying to get more education on the other ways to be free of the system, not play in their courts. I am tired of the games and violations of rights, that is the only reason I am not a police officer any more.

Now, do you have something to add, or do you need some more schooling on if I know what I am doing? I not above being called ignorant when I am, that being said, I can handle this just fine without any help, I am here to learn, if you have something to teach, then let me hear it. If not, well, fill in the blank ____ off.

[ezrhythm]

I floundered for quite a while and still do on some things as that is a way of learning. No one gives legal advice for remedy, accept for telling one to lawyer up.
Besides, isn't this forum for those to view and learn?

I have never heard of a "bench order". The court appears to be attempting to deceive you (What a surprise!) to go in and make an appearance so that they might obtain jurisdiction.
There are rules on how a motion is to be formatted so unless you formatted your paperwork like a motion it shouldn't have been accepted as one. Then again the courts often times do as they please.

I would "Refusal For Cause" again.

[BOBT12]

Originally Posted by freedom found

Background: I recieved a citation for speeding in Arizona.

I wanted to file a NOTICE OF CONDITIONAL acceptance and acceptance for value, and return the copy of the citation, but I had lost my copy of the citation.
I went to the court and got a copy of the citation, there was a docket number written on the citation AFTER I had signed it.

In my Notice of conditional acceptance and acceptance for value, I gave notice of the change on the Citation and asked for a clarification if this rendered the original citation VOID.

I also accepted the citation for value and returned it without dishonor and I signed it "without prejudice" and filed it with the court.

Today, I was mailed a BENCH ORDER which said my notice of Conditional acceptance was "considered a motion to dismiss" and a hearing is now set on my motion.

So, what do I do now?

Why not go to court and ask that the ticket be dismissed for whatever reasons you think fit, or rules that appear to apply?

[gldskr]

freedom found

The actions of the court are consisent with the paperwork that you filed. While unconventional, your A4V is unconventional as well, apparently asserting that the citation is void, hence the court's interpretation of a MtD.

I suspect your intention was to challenge jurisdiction through the A4V and for sake of argument, I will assume that your vehicle is registered. If this is the case, your plates are prima facia evidence of the court's jurisdiction and an A4V will ultimately fail.

You cannot enter into an agreement (registration), which establishes the jurisdiction and then deny the jurisdiction when a breach of the agreement is sought to be enforced.

In the instant case, your present knowledge is probably far superior for remedy than that of any A4V tactician. An unregistered vehicle, however, involves an entirely different animal.

gldskr

[Dillon Hunt]

Originally Posted by freedom found

Today, I was mailed a BENCH ORDER which said my notice of Conditional acceptance was "considered a motion to dismiss" and a hearing is now set on my motion.

So, what do I do now?

The Orginal A4V could be considered an offer to negotiate.


ne·go·ti·ate

Etymology: Latin negotiatus, past participle of negotiari to carry on business,

To confer with another so as to arrive at the settlement of some matter.

1 a: to deal with (some matter or affair that requires ability for its successful handling)
b: to manage, arrange for or bring about through conference, discussion, and compromise <negotiate a treaty>
2 a: to transfer (as a bill of exchange) to another by delivery or endorsement
b: to convert into cash or the equivalent value <negotiate a check>
3 a: to successfully travel along or over <negotiate a turn>


Look's like the BENCH ORDER is a counter-offer to your A4V. Granting jurisdiction by your act of negotiation.


It might be good to add the below phase to any future conditional acceptance sent in:

SPECIAL RESTRICTED ANSWER WITHOUT JOINDER

Dillon

[gldskr]

Originally Posted by Dillon Hunt

Look's like the BENCH ORDER is a counter-offer to your A4V. Granting jurisdiction by your act of negotiation.

No, the A4V is the counter offer to the original citation. Jurisdiction was given the moment the registration docs were signed.

The BENCH ORDER is to determine the validity of the citation, as disputed within the A4V. The fact that a docket number was added to the citation won't affect its validity. The fact that the citation doesn't qualify as a bona fide summons doesn't mean they can't define it as such within the vehicle code.

Registering into a system admits the jurisdiction of the system.

gldskr

[moishanb]

Originally Posted by freedom found

Background: I recieved a citation for speeding in Arizona.

I wanted to file a NOTICE OF CONDITIONAL acceptance and acceptance for value, and return the copy of the citation, but I had lost my copy of the citation.
I went to the court and got a copy of the citation, there was a docket number written on the citation AFTER I had signed it.

In my Notice of conditional acceptance and acceptance for value, I gave notice of the change on the Citation and asked for a clarification if this rendered the original citation VOID.

I also accepted the citation for value and returned it without dishonor and I signed it "without prejudice" and filed it with the court.

Today, I was mailed a BENCH ORDER which said my notice of Conditional acceptance was "considered a motion to dismiss" and a hearing is now set on my motion.

So, what do I do now?

First off, was the envelope properly sealed? If it was taped only, and not sealed, then it does not meet the rules of evidence, nor does it meet the requirements of the DMM(domestic mail manual) C010 section 5.1 TAPE states that simply taping an envelope is not acceptable.

Secondly, if it was properly sealed, was it addressed to you? Was it addressed to the account used in commerce named FIRST MIDDLE LAST? If you accepted the mailing, then you have the ability to decline the offer. You must, within 72 hours of receiving the offer, decline the offer, refuse for cause, or the offer is deemed accepted. Read the many posts on this topic.

Think of an order as an order in a restaurant. You order food, and hopefully, the food is brought to you, it tastes good, it is warm(depending on the food ordered), and you then pay. A bench order is simply an offer. If you do not like the offer, you return it. Just like food, if you don't like it, you don't eat the whole plate, and then tell the waitress you won't pay for it. The waitress would say, "you ate it, you didn't say anything was wrong with it, you have to pay or we will call the cops"

You must break the mental restraints that we have been trained to believe. The bench order from the purported minister, justice, or judge, is nothing more than an offer, and this order relies on your tacit agreement to become binding. You must say no thanks, and no consent.

Nancy Reagan said it best........"Just say NO!"

[ezrhythm]

Originally Posted by gldskr

No, the A4V is the counter offer to the original citation. Jurisdiction was given the moment the registration docs were signed.
I disagree. A4V is not an offer. An offer states terms. No terms are stated but instead accepted in an A4V.
Jurisdiction is still only PRESUMMED at the endorsement of a registration, hence one may still challenge jurisdiction and succeed.

The BENCH ORDER is to determine the validity of the citation, as disputed within the A4V.
An A4V doesn't disputed but accepts.

... ... ...

Registering into a system admits the jurisdiction of the system.

gldskr

If that were true then only Personam Jurisdiction could be challenged but again, SMJ may be challenged.