Why be a State national?

[dorkenbutt]

Originally Posted by weishaupt1776

Cool, sounds like you are walking the walk

BTW, the Gospel of Grace is found in 1 Cor 15:1-4, which is the only Gospel by one can be saved in this dispensation of grace

The Gospel of The Kingdom was exclusively for the Jews and no one can be saved by that Gospel these days

Anyway, my suspicions were correct

You have sour grapes because you don't want to pay someone for their hard work

I guess a church outfit is wrong for accepting donations, and LB doesn't fit into what your personal definition of ministry is

Still waiting for some verses which demonstrate that The Nationality Correction process is antithetical to scripture

Yes, you are quite correct regarding 1 Cor 15:1-4. I use 1 Cor 15:3 in the FAITH outline I Use when sharing. Thanks for jogging my memory.

Now you are claiming (an assumption I might add), "You have sour grapes because you don't want to pay someone for their hard work." If you really knew me you would know better than to make such a claim. I will just leave it at that.

Churches also collect money for all the wrong reasons, but that is another subject for another time and another place.

All I am saying is that the Word of God is all one needs to live a successful life and to be free. Do you disagree with that? Does one have to pay for God's word?

I asked you in another thread, but will ask again here, who paid the price for the children of God to be set free from sin (debt)? Was it the sinner or Christ?

You mentioned donations above. Tell me, is it a donation when it is required before help can be rendered? Or is it PAYment?

I am all for ministry and I will use an example of one man I know that helped people with his ministry. He has been convicted of passing bogus instruments (LOL), as if the Fed passes out legitimate instruments. That man is Barton Buhtz. Not once did he turn away anyone that could not donate to his ministry. He always stated if you do not have it to donate I will help you anyway. That is scripture personified.

I do not know what church you go to or even if you attend one, but I go to one that does not turn away anyone because they cannot donate. Can you say that about LB Bork? If you cannot then is it really a ministry?

[International American]

Originally Posted by weishaupt1776

I guess a church outfit is wrong for accepting donations, and LB doesn't fit into what your personal definition of ministry is

While I highly respect both of you good people, I would just like to point out that, unlike LB (whose product I purchased and is a good guy who I have nothing against), a church usually gives out it's products/services regardless of whether you donate or not. Yes, there is nothing wrong with asking for donations for free services but when a product/service is subject to a compulsory donation with terms and conditions attached, which probably prohibit free distribution, unlike a church where free distribution is usually encouraged, then they are hardly comparable are they? The fact is that LB provides a product/service in exchange for money. There is nothing wrong with that except it should not be called charitable and the money should not be called a donation (unless of course there are certain legal issues involved).

I hope you get the SPIRIT of my message, there is no antagonism to anyone, this is my humble opinion and I hope you can see my point. LB provides a great service if you can afford it, if you can't afford it then I guess you will have to find another way. Also, Dorkenbutt, although I like your attitude, I am less enthusiastic about your style of debate, it is too confrontational, and this is not too bad when debating lawyers but Weis is one of the good guys, you can read through some of his posts, he genuinely seems to care about his fellow man, like you do! So, just take it easy and try and work with like minded people, don't go overboard and end up opposing good people. Again, my humble opinion, no antagonism, you are a good guy and keep up the good work. Thanks, respectfully and humbly,

Regards,

IA

[dorkenbutt]

Thanks for the post IA. It is not my intention to alienate or be offensive. However, I will always state things as I see them. I am interested in truth and sharing that truth.

As I have previously stated, I have nothing against LB personally or Weis, for that matter. I have seen where they both state that LB has a ministry, yet the proof is otherwise.

I also have no problem paying anyone for their work. What I have a problem with and will boldly state it, is people are hurting and many cannot afford "the remedy." I see guru after guru come out and refuse to help someone that cannot pay up. It is very difficult not to see that as anything but PAYtriot.

I just thought of another that holds seminars that has my respect. That is Tim Turner. He too will allow attendance if one cannot afford to pay. I applaud him for that.

Look we are all in this together. We need to be helping and not hindering each other. When someone says they will not help you unless you pay, is no help at all. If LB truly has what people need he should be shouting it from the rooftops. Why does it have to come with a price tag that when someone can't pay they are turned away. Those that can pay I say great, pay!! But for those that can't and you supposedly have the remedy, why are they turned away and on top of it told they cannot share with someone else if they do pay? That is not any ministry I have ever heard of.

I am sorry if I sound confrontational, but these things need to be said. Good people are hurting and are being deprived because they cannot pay. That is something that not only I have a problem with.

With all that has been said, I will retire from this thread. I have said my piece. No "sour grapes" intended, just the truth as I see it.

Have a great day all.

[indigenous1]

Originally Posted by dorkenbutt

God's law is all I need. I am a child of His, not some created State. Now if you can come up with something better, then I am all ears. You see Weis, it matters not what man can do to me. It does matter what God can do. I hear all the attorn-eys talk about how only those that matter (the courts, judges, etc.) count (LOL). Try telling that to the One that really matters.

Like I said LB Bork is just a man. He is not God and does not have all the answers. When you can show me that God's Law is inferior to man's and LB has better answers than God, then come talk to me. Until that happens (which will be never) there is nothing to discuss.

I believe that you want scriptural answers to the premise of nationality and I also believe that the people err because they do not know the scriptures neither the power of Elohim יהוה .

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for יהוה sake: whether it be to a king as surpreme; Or unto governors as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

ordinance- Gr. ktisis, it means not only be subject to every human ordinance, but also to to every human creature who has any authority in government (the Yahudians thought it unlawful to obey any ruler who was not of Yahudian stock)

Another point I must make is in the book of Romans chapter 13:

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of Elohim: the powers that be are ordained of Elohim. 2 Whosoever therefore resist the power, resist the ordinance of Elohim: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good and you shall have praise of the same: For he is a (Minister Gr. dakinos, means servant) of Elohim to thee for good.

The reason why I used these 2 scriptures in connection with the Nationality Premise is b/c it is not unscriptural for the people whom create the State, Nation, Country to transfer their sovereignty to the State and declare nationality. What is being tought is that through operation of
law US citizenship doesnot give power unto the state to be the sovereign but it gives the sovereignty to the Federal Government whom was created by the State's to be Federal and NOT National.

Remember the scripture says that the rulers are servants of Elohim for the people for good. So the proper protection from the State when it comes to Federal matters is what the State Government must do, but if the citizens or nationals of the State have declared that they are citizens of a foreign district, how much power do the State have when the people are in rebellion and sedition against their country of domicile.

Respectfully

[Sapiens]

Does anyone stop to think that the Bible may have been edited to conform to the favor of those in power?

[dorkenbutt]

No, I do not believe that. It is that people misinterpret it all the time, like Romans 13. Many believe we are to submit blindly to government rule, when this could not be further from the truth.

[rentiap]

Double post

[rentiap]

Belief;
To take on faith that which has no proof.

[rentiap]

Originally Posted by Sapiens

Does anyone stop to think that the Bible may have been edited to conform to the favor of those in power?

Not only thought about it but can plainly see that these books of scriptures are most obviously the best and highest use of image training used on the unsuspecting people by the satanic culture of the world.

[indigenous1]

Originally Posted by dorkenbutt

No, I do not believe that. It is that people misinterpret it all the time, like Romans 13. Many believe we are to submit blindly to government rule, when this could not be further from the truth.

OK, If we are going to do the misinterpretation thing, lets do it scripturally. I will be glad to show you how יהוה established government and how you must submit until he gives you a direct word to bring a tyrannical government down but I will not engage unless you in turn prove your position scripturally, and not that of your own intelligence.

Deuteronomy (Debarim) 17:18 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgement, between blood and blood, between plea and plea and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which יהוה thy Elohim shall choose; And thou shalt come unto the preist the Levites and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and shall shew you the sentence of Judgement

This is יהוה giving the power of judgement to an earthly judge.

verse 11 same chapter: According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgement which they tell thee, thou shalt do; thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand nor to the left.

There is the Judicial System as ordained by יהוה .

Many believe we are to submit blindly to government rule

I dont know many people in this forum who believes that. What we understand is the difference between private, public and natural law. I could not advocate such a position and still call myself a minister or a patriot. What people in this forum have asked is, what is your remedy after making such a bold statement and not being able to produce a solid foundation on Scripture or Law. If you want to teach us the way you have to be able to produce a step by step process, not, " I only submit to my God" which is so far from the truth, and I'll give you my reason why. I say you dont submit only to your God because it is your God whom established goverment and if you really like to study American History look up the men that sparked the Revolutionary War like Pastor Moses Allen, Pastor Dr. Mayhue, Pastor Dr. Woodhall, Pastor Gad Hitch****, Pastor Jonas Clarke and Pastor John Witherspoon then you will see Christian men whom fought and had a real conviction and impact when it came down to freedom, b/c they knew that they heard from the Holy Spirit first in order to take action.

I present this knowledge not as an act of contention but rather a responds in kind. I'm trying to show you how to be a help unto a lost people, and you cannot do that by bashing a well thought out administrative process that people in this forum can testify too. Just saying "I only submit to my God" Is not enough, when its your God whom also said "my people suffer for a lack of knowledge" and if you tell people in this forum that all you have to say to a judge, irs agent, policemen, or FBI agent, "I only submit to my God", these people will laugh at you and then slam you.

There is nothing wrong with studying and coming back to show us the way. You will be respectfully received if you are found to be one of serious nature and conviction when it comes to letting us know how to tell Pharoah to "let my people go".

Respectfully