Why be a State national?

[dorkenbutt]

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for יהוה sake: whether it be to a king as surpreme; Or unto governors as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

ordinance- Gr. ktisis, it means not only be subject to every human ordinance, but also to to every human creature who has any authority in government (the Yahudians thought it unlawful to obey any ruler who was not of Yahudian stock)

I respectfully disagree. The key is for who's sake, ours or God's? We are only to obey those ordinances that are ordained by God, that is why the verse you use states "for the Lord's sake" (NASB). Tyranny is not one of those ordinances. Also what about abortion? Is that not an ordinance of man? Are we to obey that ordinance of man if it is contrary to God's Law? God forbid!!! I am sure there are many other ordinances of man that are contrary to God's Law, and we should obey none of them. Why was Acts 5:29 written if we are to obey all ordinances of man?

Personally, I let those that do not know God follow man's law. I am in no way stating here that you or Weis or LB are not men of God. I am merely stating that God wants us to follow him and not secular/man's law. What does come out from among her my people mean to you?

No argument intended.

[dorkenbutt]

One other verse I would like to through in the mix if I may. What do the following verse mean to you? 2 Corinthians 6:16-18?

Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE, says the Lord. AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you. And I will be a father to you,
And you shall be sons and daughters to Me, Says the Lord Almighty. NASB

[indigenous1]

[quote=dorkenbutt]

I respectfully disagree. The key is for who's sake, ours or God's? We are only to obey those ordinances that are ordained by God, that is why the verse you use states "for the Lord's sake" (NASB). Tyranny is not one of those ordinances. Also what about abortion? Is that not an ordinance of man? Are we to obey that ordinance of man if it is contrary to God's Law? God forbid!!! I am sure there are many other ordinances of man that are contrary to God's Law, and we should obey none of them.

Ok, lets take a look at 1 Peter (Kepha) 4:5-6:

Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. 6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to Elohim in the Spirit.

Why was Acts 5:29 written if we are to obey all ordinances of man?

If you are reading, I gave the definition of what ordinance means, but sense you asked what is being said here I will tell you. All of Christianity is centered around the NAME of the father and the name of the Son. There was a council that still carry on with the tradition of not teaching the NAME even today. They commanded the Apostles to stop teaching the NAME. 1 John (Yahanakahn) 3:23: And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the NAME of the Son Yahoshua Hamassiach, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. So there was already a commendment in place that came from the source(reason for disobedience).

Every command or compelling law of man can be and will be debated and or dismissed. The court must have juristiction, but if juristiction is not challenged but agreed upon through ignorance, you will have a problem. Remember we are free will agents but a government cannot govern without the consent of the govern. You have no idea how many contracts you have agreed too without a signature or just silence.

Personally, I let those that do not know God follow man's law

Psalms (Tehillum) 82:1- : Elohim standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will you judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said you are gods and all of you are children of the Most High.

This doesnt mean all earthly judges are of יהוה, especially if they are being a terror to good works

I respectfully disagree. The key is for who's sake, ours or God's? We are only to obey those ordinances that are ordained by God, that is why the verse you use states "for the Lord's sake" (NASB).

What you donot understand is "presumption" and operation of law

In the law of evidence, a presumption of a particular fact can be made without the aid of proof in some situations. The types of presumption includes a rebuttable discretionary presumption, a rebuttable mandatory presumption, and an irrebutable or conclusive presumption. The invocation of a presumption will normally shift the burden of proof from one party to the opposing party in a court trial. Presumptions are sometimes categorized into two types: presumptions without basic facts, and presumptions with basic facts.

The phrase "by operation of law" is a legal term that indicates that a right or liability has
been created for a party, irrespective of the intent of that party, because it is dictated by
existing legal principles.

Now tell me being in this world and not of this world with the principles and teachings of the word, what will you use to defend yourself against silent contracts that bind you to an obligation. You must fight. Give yourself a shot. Study.

Also what about abortion? Is that not an ordinance of man?

Ordinance doesnt mean law and Christianity cares about more subjects than abortion. This is a choice of man, and people will be judged for the sheading of innosent blood.

Shalom

[dorkenbutt]

[quote=indigenous1]

Originally Posted by dorkenbutt

Ok, lets take a look at 1 Peter (Kepha) 4:5-6:

Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. 6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to Elohim in the Spirit.

God is ready to judge all those who have received the gospel in vain. It matters not to me how I am judged according to men in the flesh. If I am living according to God in the Spirit is all that matters. I leave the judgment to God for all those who have had the gospel preached to them, but without the good effects produced by it.


If you are reading, I gave the definition of what ordinance means, but sense you asked what is being said here I will tell you. All of Christianity is centered around the NAME of the father and the name of the Son. There was a council that still carry on with the tradition of not teaching the NAME even today. They commanded the Apostles to stop teaching the NAME. 1 John (Yahanakahn) 3:23: And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the NAME of the Son Yahoshua Hamassiach, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. So there was already a commendment in place that came from the source(reason for disobedience).

Yes I have other friends that have stated to me in the past that my use of the name Jesus is incorrect. Or that my use of God, Jehovah, LORD are also incorrect and is not the true name.

The fact is, when we are speaking the truths of God's word (Law) we are to obey Him and not man, no matter what that truth is. If we are told by man to do or not to do something and is contrary to the teachings of God we are not to obey man, but God.

Every command or compelling law of man can be and will be debated and or dismissed. The court must have juristiction, but if juristiction is not challenged but agreed upon through ignorance, you will have a problem. Remember we are free will agents but a government cannot govern without the consent of the govern. You have no idea how many contracts you have agreed too without a signature or just silence.


I am aware that there are hidden contracts and I have taken steps to rid myself of those hidden contracts. One of the best books on the subject is George Mercier's "Invisible Contracts."

All I can say is that as long as I am doing the will of my Father then I do not care about man's jurisdiction. If I am doing what I need to be doing, then man will never have jurisdiction over me and their (PTB) laws (those that are contrary to His) are not binding on me. Now man can do anything they want, but will answer one day when they stand before God at judgment.

I like what you have below in Psalms 82:1. I like the NASB version best, but that is simply my preference.


Psalms (Tehillum) 82:1- : Elohim standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will you judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said you are gods and all of you are children of the Most High.

This doesnt mean all earthly judges are of יהוה, especially if they are being a terror to good works

Yes, and most are terrors to good works, but not all. I haven't found any that aren't yet, but does not mean they are not there. The problem is many do not know they are terrors because they have no godly foundation upon which to judge rightly. Unfortunately a rude awakening awaits them.



What you donot understand is "presumption" and operation of law

In the law of evidence, a presumption of a particular fact can be made without the aid of proof in some situations. The types of presumption includes a rebuttable discretionary presumption, a rebuttable mandatory presumption, and an irrebutable or conclusive presumption. The invocation of a presumption will normally shift the burden of proof from one party to the opposing party in a court trial. Presumptions are sometimes categorized into two types: presumptions without basic facts, and presumptions with basic facts.

The phrase "by operation of law" is a legal term that indicates that a right or liability has
been created for a party, irrespective of the intent of that party, because it is dictated by
existing legal principles.

The "legal" principles you speak of are mostly man made with few exceptions. They come not from God and are an abomination. Man's statutes for the most part are contrary to the Law of God. Those that are not I will obey, those that are, well....

Now tell me being in this world and not of this world with the principles and teachings of the word, what will you use to defend yourself against silent contracts that bind you to an obligation. You must fight. Give yourself a shot. Study.

[color=blue][b]First, as I told you those invisible contracts have been and are being dealt with. I am not going to worry about something that may or may not happen. Why should I do something I am commanded not to do, sin (worry). Now I am not saying you are worrying or sinning, but that is exactly what I would be doing if I was concerned about some invisible contract that could possibly bind me to some obligation that may or may never occur. As long as I am doing the will of my Father, and yes that can be difficult due to the flesh, He will reveal to me what is necessary at the proper time. Remember we walk by faith and not by sight (2 Corinthians 5:7).



Ordinance doesnt mean law and Christianity cares about more subjects than abortion. This is a choice of man, and people will be judged for the sheading of innosent blood.

Yes, people will be judged for shedding innocent blood, but that does not mean we have to follow this type of ordinance. And yes, I believe this to be an ordinance of man.

Shalom

I would like you to do me a favor and all those on suijuris that can do so, please pray for two people for me. I woke up with a heavy burden and is now very early am. One reason I have replied to your post now. Their first names are Kevin and Shirley. Both have cancer and both are in very critical condition. One is going to be going through 13 weeks of extensive chemo (Shirley) and she is very weakened from surgery. The other told that if he did not have massive chemo he would not live out the year. He has chosen natural means after much prayer and research. Please ask God to give each strength and comfort during these very trying times and that His will be done. Thank you all that are willing to do this. Please forgive me for putting this here, but I believe more will see it here than elsewhere.

[indigenous1]

First things first, I have asked of the Father and through faith Kevin and Shirley are healed in Yahshua's Name.


I would like you to read this scripture in 1Timothy 2:1-6:

I Exort therefore, that first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead quiet and peaceble life in all yahliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and accepteble in the sight of Adonai our Savior; 4 Who will have men to be saved, and come into the knowledge of the truth. For there is one El and one mediator between Elohim and men Christ Yahshua. 6 Who gave himself a ransome for all to be testified in due time.

I am showing you this scripture because even though governments have done many things outside of the Natural Law of יהוה he still would have us reverence their authority and pray for them. We here in this forum are fighters, and if the governments of man are defeated by one or many here, יהוה will not judge them for fighting. No one here is writing about taking the war to the streets. People here are proposing intellectual sequences and asking others here to judge it as a bad idea supported by Law or lets try it. If found successful we all may try it or not, but no one hords the information to themselves. Again we are fighters and I always pray for those who come up against me and may even defeat me but I will never stop fighting, יהוה
has called me to tare down the barriers of man and I will, because through faith I am exercising my right to be more than a conqueror. Perhaps you can look at it this way, if there is no test or trial how whould you even know that your El is with you bringing you out victorious. In conclusion I have to address your interest in George Mercier's "Invisible Contract". This proves that you are a fighter and one of your problems is with LB and not the fact that there is a remedy needed in order to combat the defacto authority.

Shalom

[fulltitle]

Without Prejudice.
[1] The "State" National premise has lots of merit. However, I am not necessarily sure that most are adequately informed concerning what has happened.

[2] From history, it wasnt unusual [in Roman systems] for mere clubs, or corporations to take on the appearance of de jure government.

[3] While a state might be construed to be by some a creature of a men, a confederation of states may not necessarily be a creature of a man but instead might be the creature of the states that themselves were created by men.

[4] Concerning the Congress that was convened under military authority of a United States president circa 1861: it may be that an entirely new Union was formed around that time.

[5] To reiterate: concerning the United States it would be police, judges attorneys or the like who fail to honor the distinction between the likes of public or private or who intefere with free men in their exercise or enjoyment of rights who would be failing to be subject to higher powers and who might also be in rebellion. The free man living his life, raising his family, who stays out of the system, who does not go about causing unrest or the like who does not send his children to "public school" is not necessarily the one in rebellion, State actors who try to force him against his will [i.e. unlawful interference with exercise or enjoyment of rights--it is likely against the bond of police in the United States to interfere with the exercise or enjoyment of rights of free men and despite any presumption on the part of such police, attorneys or judges if they interfere with such rights or the like such police would likely be the ones in rebellion or who are opposing or resisting the laws of the United States or who are opposing or resisting de jure higher power]. Despite any clever tactics used to increase revenues or to expand power, kidnapping would be kidnapping, involuntary servitude would be involuntary servitude, reducing men to chattle would be reducing men to chattle [i.e. some call it temple desecration].

[dorkenbutt]

Originally Posted by indigenous1

First things first, I have asked of the Father and through faith Kevin and Shirley are healed in Yahshua's Name.


I would like you to read this scripture in 1Timothy 2:1-6:

I Exort therefore, that first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead quiet and peaceble life in all yahliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and accepteble in the sight of Adonai our Savior; 4 Who will have men to be saved, and come into the knowledge of the truth. For there is one El and one mediator between Elohim and men Christ Yahshua. 6 Who gave himself a ransome for all to be testified in due time.

I am showing you this scripture because even though governments have done many things outside of the Natural Law of יהוה he still would have us reverence their authority and pray for them. We here in this forum are fighters, and if the governments of man are defeated by one or many here, יהוה will not judge them for fighting. No one here is writing about taking the war to the streets. People here are proposing intellectual sequences and asking others here to judge it as a bad idea supported by Law or lets try it. If found successful we all may try it or not, but no one hords the information to themselves. Again we are fighters and I always pray for those who come up against me and may even defeat me but I will never stop fighting, יהוה
has called me to tare down the barriers of man and I will, because through faith I am exercising my right to be more than a conqueror. Perhaps you can look at it this way, if there is no test or trial how whould you even know that your El is with you bringing you out victorious. In conclusion I have to address your interest in George Mercier's "Invisible Contract". This proves that you are a fighter and one of your problems is with LB and not the fact that there is a remedy needed in order to combat the defacto authority.

Shalom

Thanks you for lifting my friends up in prayer.

I agree with you regarding prayer for those in authority. I also agree we should pray for all people. We have a difference of opinion who those in authority are, however.

I give this a rest and bid you peace.

[fulltitle]

Without Prejudice.
[1] The "State" National premise has lots of merit. However, I am not necessarily sure that most are adequately informed concerning what has happened.

[2] From history, it wasnt unusual [in Roman systems] for mere clubs, or corporations to take on the appearance of de jure government.

[3] While a state might be construed to be by some a creature of a men, a confederation of states may not necessarily be a creature of a man but instead might be the creature of the states that themselves were created by men.

[4] Concerning the Congress that was convened under military authority of a United States president circa 1861: it may be that an entirely new Union was formed around that time.

[5] Again the requirement to be subject to higher powers is no less bearing on the police, attorneys or judges in requiring them to NOT interfere with the exercise or enjoyment of rights of free men or even to require them to honor certain distrinctions between public or private for example--to require them to stay within the scope of their authority or power. Wearing a uniform and a piece of metal on one's chest is not a license to kidnap or to reduce men to chattel.