Court Rejects Argument

[Ice]

The courts have supposedly soundly rejected the argument of "non-resident alien".



See, United States v. Sloan, 939 F.2d 499, 501 (7th Cir. 1991); United States v. Jagim, 978 F.2d 1032, 1036 (8th Cir. 1992); United States v. Hilgeford, 7 F.3d 1340, 1342 (7th Cir. 1993); Larue v. United States, 959 F. Supp. 957 (C.D.Ill.1997).

In Boyd v. Nebraska, 143 U.S. 135 (1892), the U.S. Supreme Court states as follows:

"Mr. Justice Story, in his Commentaries on the Constitution, says: 'Every citizen of a state is ipso facto a citizen of the United States.' Section 1693. And this is the view expressed by Mr. Rawle in his work on the Constitution. Chapter 9, pp. 85, 86. Mr Justice Curtis, in Dred Scott v. Sandford, 19 How. 393, 576, expressed the opinion that under the constitution of the United States 'every free person, born on the soil of a state, who is a citizen of that state by force of its constitution or laws, is also a citizen of the United States.' And Mr. Justice Swayne, in The Slaughter-House Cases, 16 Wall. 36, 126, declared that 'a citizen of a state is ipos facto a citizen of the United States.'"

There are a wide number of federal acts and executive proclamations which have used the term, citizen of the United States.

1 Stat. 25, 26, 55, 520; 2 Stat. 171, 780; 3 Stat. 660; 4 Stat. 115; 9 Stat. 1001, 1004.

11 Stat. 753 (Proclamation of April 22, 1793, by George Washington)
11 Stat. 760 (Proclamation of July 2, 1807, by Thomas Jefferson)
11 Stat. 765 (Proclamation of Sept. , 1815, by James Madison)
11 Stat. 769 (Proclamation of June 7, 1827, by John Q. Adams)
11 Stat. 783 (Proclamation of Sept. 1, 1836, by Andrew Jackson)
11 Stat. 785 (Proclamation of Jan. 5, 1838, by Martin Van Buren)

The federal government has tremendous power over aliens; see Chai Chan Ping v. United States, 130 US 581 (1889); Fong Yue Ting v. United States, 149 U.S. 698, 13 S. Ct. 1016 (1893); Shaughnessy v. Mezei, 345 U.S. 206, 73 S. Ct. 625 (1953); and Harisiades v. Shaughnessy, 342 U.S. 580, 586, 587, 72 S. Ct. 512, 517 (1952).

Why would an American desire to execute some IRS forms to declare himself an alien?

[Ice]

Once again I have been accused of not doing my homework. (laugh).


Chris supplies an answer to this very post and it can be found at:


<FONT color=#0000ff>http://famguardian.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=77&amp;view=getnewpost</FONT>

Anyone that finds any contradiction, please note it here.

[Jerseee]

Ice,


I believe you and Chris are putting too much thought into this.


Remember, that their whole system is based on controversy--right?& Well there is no controversy once we figure out how to effectively (without a doubt) let the world know of our citizenship.


It maybe nice to go back and forth from one publication to another.& But the fact remains that regardless of what confusion they want to cause (just to have controversy), our position is clear, unambiguous, and lawful.&


I say let their stare decisis stand as it may, once we figure out how to snuff out their attacks to keep assuming that we are something that we have declared not to be---their whole game will be exposed.


From what I have read (your post and Chris' post) there's too much ambiguity between codes, statutes, and constitutional amendments.& there is the controversy right there.& The first 10 (bill of rights) applies to US Nationals in my opinion--anything after the 12th are for US citizens.


good luck

[Ice]

Actually,&I knew from the start that it was nothing more than a question of "which U.S." they were talking about.& But, if they ever bring any of these cites into a court room scenario, you want to be able to rebut them as best you can.


As I said before, I do not believe that we actually need to do anything until/unless we are attacked by them.& It then becomes their obligation to PROVE their assumption in regards to our citizenship.


One thing I know to be true about most people is that if you show them something that may prove their idea/belief/position to be in error they will defend their idea/belief/position and/or accuse you of not having done your research or&having no knowledge of the issue.& It seems to be natural for people to be defensive... even if it may put them into "argument".& We sure are a complex creation... ain't we?


But I brought these to his attention and asked specific questions in an attempt to acquire something more from him.& I guess he said all he can say in his book and on his site (there is a lot of stuff there).


He did say that he would check out the proclamations.& But, it's probably the same old thing... "definition of terms".& (Which U.S.?)


&

[FlunkyNoMo]

ICE- "Cognitive Dissonance"
If you understand this you'll understand why they can't believe your truths. It would shake their very foundation. They must find fault to protect themselves. Do you remember the fog when you first came to realize you'd been shafted? The weak turn away and go back to the bliss of ignorance, it's so much less work!
It might help to explain "Cog. Dis." first, perhaps easing their defensive response.


& FNM

[Jerseee]

Ice and FNM,


&


I feel much better now.& I was kind of concerned there for a minute Cowboy.& Any progress on your part Ice, on this citizenship stuff?


I posted a sample doc that I was going to use under the Citizenship and Jurisdiction thread.

[Ice]

Actually, I think I may wait on this issue.& I think I may wait until I am "attacked" and can bring it into play.& I am actually working on some other issues (when I have any kind of spare time).


&

[Jerseee]

Ice,


that is a different approach to wait to be attacked but, I will press on because I think the longer it is in the public record of my citizenship status the better.& Just my thoughts.

[Ice]

Press on Bro.& I do have an Affidavit of citizenship status.& I'm not completely on empty.& I really don't think we need much more than that.& And I don't believe that we need to notify anyone of that status.& There is a right to privacy.& So, when they do come, I have proof of my citizenship status.& I don't believe that they could rebut my affidavit.


&

[Jerseee]

Ooops,


I think I better hurry and get mine.