Get Out of SS

Ice · #1 10-18-2003, 12:18 AM

I've been reviewing all the documents and have come to some conclusions.& The docs needed to remove oneself from SS were a bit easier to decide on than are the docs for the Dept. of State.

The docs to remove oneself from the SS are:

Notice of Expatriation Affidavit From U.S. Citizen to "American" National

W-8 (or W-8BEN)

Actual and Constructive Notice

Revocation of Power of Attorney

SSA-521

The W-8 and the SSA-521 will need to be filled out 'carefully'.& I'll be working on those in the next few days... as well as the Revocation of Power of Attorney, which is one doc that I have not yet found.

The docs for the Dept. of State are quite different.& I'm not exactly sure which doc to use as the initial request.& Initially I was leaning towards the larger doc... but now I find myself leaning towards the shorter of the 2.& The "attachments" are another story altogether.& It is my opinion that the "DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE" (which is "Enclosure 5" located in the downloads section) is a must.& The FS 581 Questionnaire, the 7 FAM 1100 doc, Birth Certificate, the&SSA Regulation on Citizenship Status(POM) -&section RS 00204.015, Affidavit of Oath of Allegiance, the modified DS 11, Enclosure 6 and an SS-5 form are all the choices for attachments with the request for the Certificate.

Maybe the less we use the better off we would be.& If we load them down with a bunch of attachments they may think that we're trying to "prove" something and maybe we are not really sure of what we are doing.& If we send just the most pertinent documents, those docs that fulfill the requirements, we will stand a better chance at reaching the goal.

I am open to suggestions/opinions etc.

&

&

Jerseee · #2 10-18-2003, 12:40 AM

Ice,

Here is a thought.& Since I am in the system up to my eyebrows, I have learned something very important.& The sheeple/company man/agent will do&wht you want&if they have a document that has already been accepted by one tentacles of the beast.& For example, if I go to human resources and show them that I am an American National by providing a passport reflecting this--they will be more apt to accept your docs rather than just giving them docs with no support.

I think we should file certain documents such as SS Forms and DS Forms and then once they are processed--do a Freedom of Information Act request to get a filed copy for our records.& But the most important part of that is you must state that you want all the info because they will line out pertinent info such as the SSAN or DOB on the certified copy.

Then after that is done--I think the declaration of independence should be done last along with the Revocation of The power of attorney.

And as for the POA, I think one can be created to say and do what we want it to.&

This is a time consuming process but I would rather have a certified filed copy of a modified DS-11 reflecting the correct information, than to just file all of these docs at one time.

Also, there is&law out there that allows you to sue the beast over information and access to it--so being denied a foia is not an option.

http://www.section508.gov

Your thoughts on this strategy.....by the way, this is how I personally operate within the beast.& remember, what trumps evidence?& Admission

Ice · #3 10-18-2003, 11:38 AM

Jerseee,

There are certain things REQUIRED in order to receive the "Certificate".& These items MUST accompany any request for said "Certificate".

In regards to the SSA - those that are listed&in my above post&are absolutely necessary to remove oneself from SS.& It is only 1 letter with 4 attachments.& All of it must be presented together in order to meet the requirements and "possible" requirements.

The idea is to meet any demand that they may attempt to make&which they can also&use as an excuse to NOT honor the request.& Having those things that have been found within the law to be necessary in one instance, may not be necessary in another.

Note that the SS-5 is one of the possible attachments to the request for the Cert. from the Dept. of State.& It seems to me that the SS-5 is unnecessary due to the FACT that we are going to OPT OUT of SS altogether using the stated docs for that process.& So, lets scratch the SS-5 off of that list UNLESS someone can demonstrate a real need to include that document.

As for ENCLOSURE 6, that seems to me to be more suited for the tax man.& There is some pertinent paragraphs, but I am of the opinion that the doc is really not necessary.& So, lets scratch that off the list also, UNLESS somone can demonstrate a real need to include that document.

Any one else have suggestions in regards to the attachments of the Dept. of State request for Certificate?

&

Jerseee · #4 10-19-2003, 04:00 PM

Ice,

I just thought of something.& I believe its against the law to modify government forms.& Are there any documented cases where the modified DS-11 was upheld?

AndyJackson · #5 10-19-2003, 06:06 PM

Since social security is completely voluntary for the citizen working within the 50 states... why not just quit participating?& The law couldn't be any plainer regarding a voluntary withholding agreement.

Jerseee · #6 10-19-2003, 07:45 PM

Andy,

that would be ideal however, copmanies put people under duress with statements like this on a employment application:

"DISCLOSURE: Voluntary; however, failure to provide the SSN will result in delayed or denial of application."

&

Ice · #7 10-19-2003, 11:15 PM

Jerseee,

I don't know of any mentions of problems with the modified docs.

AJ,

SS plainly tells your number is private and need not be given out, however you may be denied services.& Also, check out the Asseveration of Coercion... I believe it is available in the downloads section.& If it isn't there, it will be soon.

I was involved in a conversation in which a guy claimed he "just doesn't use the number".& I never did get an answer to my questions... so, I view that as I do anything else... hot air until the success is proven.& If you want to take a look at the conversation, it is at the forum I posted a link to in "Service Providers".& I've had second thoughts about that forum... it doesn't seem like there will be too much dialogue.& We may just work through the processes together, right here, as we have been doing.

&

Jerseee · #8 10-20-2003, 01:58 PM

Ice,

What about documented successes with the docs?

Ice · #9 10-20-2003, 02:25 PM

Jerseee,

Personally, I do not know of anyone that has reported any success with this process.& But, you could register at the family guardian forum and pose the question ... maybe one of the other 12 members there has had success or knows of someone that did... Chris may know more about that than anyone else.

Ice

Jerseee · #10 10-20-2003, 05:27 PM

thanks Ice,

I must make a observation here.& I take it you are really busy Ice.& I mean REALLY BUSY.& I say this because--usually you demand cited cases or some sort of evidence that you can research prior to vouching for a process.

I am referring to the modified DS-11 that we were chatting about.& I will register there and ask the question but, it seems that you are leaving that avenue alone.&

You must be working on something very very big to let that modified form thing slide :-).& I know its the jurisdiction package but I didn't think it was that cumbersome of a task for you.& Thanks for all you do bruh. :-)