Reflections on the 14th Amendment Sec IV

[mrg]

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Originally Posted by weishaupt1776

That might depend upon where one is going with it.

That is not a logical or valid analogy.

Grammar is grammar; a capital before a noun denotes a proper noun, lower case denotes a common noun, both have distinct functions.

Nearly every word, punctuation mark, phrase, sentence, and even the order in which the parts of the document were assembled was laboriously debated, argued, and either agreed upon, or conceded to.

As far as I know this is recorded in Madison's Diaries.

That would be, perhaps, the meat of the matter.

However, is this Constitution so vague, or meaningless concerning this point that "tons of law" are needed to "construe" the phrase in order to give it meaning?

By "law" do you mean that which is Constitutionally explicit in pursuance thereof?

I do not know, so those are real questions.

That would also seem to be the meat of the matter.




This icon might, as well, apply to the entire concept that we are a functional Constitutional Republic.

I hope I am wrong.

I still am not otherwise convinced that the only working statement of Law that may be relied upon today is the Unanimous Declaration.

[Shoonra]

Making an issue out of the capitalization of a word in one place and not another in the Constitution is not promising. For one thing, a long-standing canon of statutory interpretation -- dating from the time before Xerox machines, when proposed legislation was read aloud to the members of an assembly instead of each of them having identical printed copies -- that capitalization has no significance.

For another, in 1787 and the generation previous to that, the "King's English" used by the Founders was modelled on that of that of the recent monarchs -- the Hanoverian kings of England -- who had been raised speaking German, a language in which all nouns, even common nouns, are capitalized. This Germanic style is conspicuous in the elegant parchment copies of the Declaration and the 1787 Constitution (which, moreover, were handwritten by scriveners who themselves had Germanic backgrounds). The non-Germanic style of capitalization became popular in America gradually as the link to England became a more distant memory.

[Codee]

Yes. Back in the old days they used trickery like "this state" and "the state" when speaking aloud. Different names presume different things. In oreder to redefine a word in the constitution you must change the spelling somehow. Otherwise the whole constitution cou ld be amended by just changing the meaning of the words. They can never change the original intent of "citizen."

[Codee]

Section. 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

I see nothing here about furhter punishment. I only see that claims for debt owed shall be VOID. NO EFFECT!!!

[palani]

Codee posted

I see nothing here about furhter punishment

If you want to punish your banker, tell him you have no legal obligation to repay the loan!

[Big Al]

I see in an earlier post the mention of Madison's diaries. Well and good. For many years Madison would not talk about the meaning of the words in the Constitution. The diaries stayed out of public view. Madison had a vary good reason for this.

The Constitution was written for the common Man's understanding and Madison wanted to hear what the common Man' understanding of the Constitution was.

I've heard from an historian, that setting on the desk of each delegate to the Constitutional convention set a copy of the Law of Nations.

Perhaps they were not the country bumpkins that some here make them out to be?