Silver Bonds

[psholtz]

I've heard rumors that you can pay off parking tickets (and other such municipal fines) using silver bonds..

Is this true?

[ThomPaine]

why in the world would one want to pay a parking ticket?

[psholtz]

Originally Posted by ThomPaine

why in the world would one want to pay a parking ticket?

Well... I don't... lol

That's my question..

I heard there's a process where you can take some silver into a notary public, draft up a letter (an IOU of sorts) promising to pay the parking ticket once the government returns to a gold/silver standard, have the notary sign it, and then use this to "discharge" your parking ticket.

My question is, how does this work, specifically? (if at all)

I know I'm garbling some of the details of how it's supposed to work above, but I've heard stories of people being able to use a process like this to successfully discharge debts as well.

[robhalford88]

Originally Posted by psholtz

Well... I don't... lol

That's my question..

I heard there's a process where you can take some silver into a notary public, draft up a letter (an IOU of sorts) promising to pay the parking ticket once the government returns to a gold/silver standard, have the notary sign it, and then use this to "discharge" your parking ticket.

My question is, how does this work, specifically? (if at all)

I know I'm garbling some of the details of how it's supposed to work above, but I've heard stories of people being able to use a process like this to successfully discharge debts as well.

I would say that you should forget whatever you heard. That is NOT the way to go. You should try to use a negative averment to get them to prove their case and use a notary protest to do so.

[Shoonra]

That will not work at all. The judge wants the fine paid now, not on the Greek calends.

The federal law defining legal tender says:

31 USC Sec. 5103 --- Legal tender:
United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.
Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.

This means that not only can FRNs be used to pay fines and taxes, but that the authorities can insist on being paid in US currency (including FRNs). That answers those people who tried to pay off taxes with merchandise instead of money.

[psholtz]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

This means that not only can FRNs be used to pay fines and taxes, but that the authorities can insist on being paid in US currency (including FRNs). That answers those people who tried to pay off taxes with merchandise instead of money.

That is, of course, an extremely common way of giving otherwise useless paper some perceived value... i.e., by making it "required" to pay for taxes.

The English have been doing it since the tally-stick days..

It is, of course, an extremely illegal and criminal practice.

[robhalford88]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

That will not work at all. The judge wants the fine paid now, not on the Greek calends.

The federal law defining legal tender says:



This means that not only can FRNs be used to pay fines and taxes, but that the authorities can insist on being paid in US currency (including FRNs). That answers those people who tried to pay off taxes with merchandise instead of money.

If there is consideration and it is refused, then the debt is void, that is BASIC contract law. Obviously, it has to be reasonable. You wouldn't expect someone to accept 50,000 pairs of socks for a debt or something like that, if they couldn't use them in some way, or convert the substance to their use.

[Shoonra]

I have no idea what you think is the commercial transaction here. This is a matter of fines for various traffic tickets; very different from a commercial transaction. The "consideration" - if you insist on finding one - is that the judge is allowing the defendant to be penalized with his purse instead of his person; in other words, pay a monetary fine instead of going to jail. That "consideration" is refused by failure or refusal to pay the fine. The defendant refuses to pay now in any sort of legal tender (and the UCC gives the creditor/vendor the right to insist on legal tender), so that's a rejection of the "consideration" or of the judge's "offer", which means the defendant has, of his own free will, decided he wants to go to jail.

A debt is not paid by any sort of IOU that promises future payment, especially if the promise is illusory, as here.

[psholtz]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

I have no idea what you think is the commercial transaction here. This is a matter of fines for various traffic tickets; very different from a commercial transaction. The "consideration" - if you insist on finding one - is that the judge is allowing the defendant to be penalized with his purse instead of his person; in other words, pay a monetary fine instead of going to jail. That "consideration" is refused by failure or refusal to pay the fine. The defendant refuses to pay now in any sort of legal tender (and the UCC gives the creditor/vendor the right to insist on legal tender), so that's a rejection of the "consideration" or of the judge's "offer", which means the defendant has, of his own free will, decided he wants to go to jail.

A debt is not paid by any sort of IOU that promises future payment, especially if the promise is illusory, as here.

There is no "monetary" consideration if FRNs are all that is being transferred.

Legal tender is not necessarily the same thing as money.

Which raises an question: is silver still considered legal tender in this nation?

[Shoonra]

If you've got (old) US silver coinage, such as silver quarters and silver dollars, then, yes, rest assured that they're still legal tender and will remain so, and you can use them to pay taxes, fines, and (I suppose) every kind of debt. However, if you use them to pay for such governmental demands as taxes or fines then you're an idiot because the govt accepts them in payment only at face value. You can get so much more in FRNs if you sell your silver coins to a collector.

The law says FRNs are legal tender and currency. If they're not money in some recondite philosophical sense, they're good enough for government work.

If you really think that FRNs are valueless, take all you have and dump them in the collection plate at church.

And, going back to the original question, the judge can insist on payment in US currency (including FRNs). From the way the statute reads, I don't think the judge can insist on FRNs to the exclusion of silver coins or US Notes and if you want to pay your fine that way, dollar for dollar at face value, I'm sure the judge will gladly accept it.