CourtDiscuss the tactics used by the court system, and how to develop your counter-tactics for success in the courtroom, dealing with citations, criminal and civil matters.
a couple of people have been asking me lately how to do refusal for cause whenever they recieve a traffic citation or a court summons. theres been some rhetoric in previous months post about it, but nothing really concrete to follow per se.
As i am pretty new to this research myself i cant really give them a defentive answer for myself or for them and would like to know the step by step procedure for doing a refusal for cause.. all details would be greatly appreciated.
should it be certified, do you have to file an affadavit with it a certain way, et cetra , et cetra?
Please PM with the Procedure and corresponding docs i will need.. you can post it in the forum for everyones benefit if you wish as well.
In an honest world simply mark the presentment conspicuously "Refusal for Cause" or "Refused for Cause" and give it back to the presenter within 72 hours.
From there you would simply raise the authenticity of the action - hire process servers, court reporters for hearings, keep a copy in the US Courthouse so that you may acquire a certified copy for evidence if they proceed as though you had no right to R4C...
Recently TheGhost has posted to using R4C successfully. One fellow simply wrote it on the next hearing's notice and walked it up to the bench saying, "Let the record show I have refused for cause your presentment in a timely manner."
A couple suitors, years ago tell me the wife was home alone confronted by Certified Mail from the Treasury. The postman could see she was nervous and said, "Just write Refused for Cause on it and send it back to them. It will go away."
I suppose I am really telling you there is no set method to doing it other than the important thing. Do it. And do it timely. You will learn as you go how much you need to invest in elevating the authority of the action. The suitors typically spend $25 for each R4C; $12 Registered Mailings back to the presenter and to the US Courthouse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theghost
David, thanks. I understand what you are saying, and I have done several R4C's in the past within the 72 hour period. First, more details; my son was arrested on a...
Regards,
David Merrill.
P.S. One presentment went through the washing machine by accident. It is a bond agreement and note that I corrected the presumed legal name and assumed DOB before signing it in the booking area of the jail. If you sign knowingly to false information against yourself, obligating you to perform chattel, you encumber and severely hobble your chances of successfully abating the nuisance with a R4C.
Last edited by David Merrill : 05-18-2006 at 08:36 PM.
A long time ago, in one of Leroy Michael's earlier videos, I recall Leroy found that "Refusal" of process means you've been served. Then a year or so later, I read in the Rules of Civil Procedure, I think it's in Rule 4, that if one "refuses", it is deemed accepted, you got notice.
Many times since then I came to notice law enforcement and other various beaurocrats would routinely come back with "So, you are REFUSING?" when I would decline to accept their papers or comply with their requests. Sheriffs/deputies have simply put in an affidavit stating "I served HIM at HIS RESIDENCE and HE refused it." Ya da Ya da.
When dealing with these situations, I have come to respond "Oh no, I'm sorry, you are misunderstanding the circumstances here. I would be happy to comply if I could. But I simply DO NOT have the authority to "REFUSE" anything that is not in my name."
And interestingly, I have used a mailing location of "general post office" in the past. The punch line is papers sent to me at that location did not get picked up and went back to the source "UNCLAIMED" rather than "REFUSED". Hmmm!!!
You see, I may be wrong but I believe when, say a "notice to appear" day comes for hearing, the judge simply listens to the opposing attorney in your absence, and then asks the attorney on the record, "Well did MR. Soinso get notice to appear?" And the attorney simply shows him the envelope you returned with "REFUSED" slashed across the front of it ... and that is what covers the judge issuing a bogus bench warrant. "Oh I see, HE "REFUSED" it, so he got notice!!!
A long time ago, in one of Leroy Michael's earlier videos, I recall Leroy found that "Refusal" of process means you've been served. Then a year or so later, I read in the Rules of Civil Procedure, I think it's in Rule 4, that if one "refuses", it is deemed accepted, you got notice.
Many times since then I came to notice law enforcement and other various beaurocrats would routinely come back with "So, you are REFUSING?" when I would decline to accept their papers or comply with their requests. Sheriffs/deputies have simply put in an affidavit stating "I served HIM at HIS RESIDENCE and HE refused it." Ya da Ya da.
When dealing with these situations, I have come to respond "Oh no, I'm sorry, you are misunderstanding the circumstances here. I would be happy to comply if I could. But I simply DO NOT have the authority to "REFUSE" anything that is not in my name."
And interestingly, I have used a mailing location of "general post office" in the past. The punch line is papers sent to me at that location did not get picked up and went back to the source "UNCLAIMED" rather than "REFUSED". Hmmm!!!
You see, I may be wrong but I believe when, say a "notice to appear" day comes for hearing, the judge simply listens to the opposing attorney in your absence, and then asks the attorney on the record, "Well did MR. Soinso get notice to appear?" And the attorney simply shows him the envelope you returned with "REFUSED" slashed across the front of it ... and that is what covers the judge issuing a bogus bench warrant. "Oh I see, HE "REFUSED" it, so he got notice!!!
Just some thoughts.
Sincerely,
truth
Excellent points! And you have really hit the heart of why I seldom find suitors over the Internet. They all come from referrals. You are touching on what collective experience and meeting other suitors and of course understanding me an intelligence nexus in the midst of courts of competent jurisdiction as sensory nodes. I live my career vicariously through the eyes of people like you who have undergone the paradigm shift of capital integration.
Hold court on your kitchen table six days a week. You bring in the suits from that courthouse out front called the mailbox and hear them. First do it slowly and carefully until you get the mathematics down. Now pick up the first suit; Is that your name? (Probably not.) - - Who is it from? (Who is the plaintiff?). Do you want to appear? (By tearing the envelope open.) Does it hold enough gravity in the contract affairs of your household (Dept. of Revenue or Treasury) to be worth $25? ($12 Registered Mail back to the Presenter and to your evidence repository in the US Courthouse.)
Because you certainly have the right to hold in trust artificial entities and as long as you understand that they are "shingles" in commerce, you can prevent them from bleeding over.
And really, I don't care what the Rules say in an administrative tribunal before municipal magistrates about "last known address" being adaquate notice. Misnomer is a fatal error in any court's jurisdiction - especially if they refuse to correct it (abatement for misnomer).
I have been putting Return To Sender: Not Properly Addressed on items sent to the wrong location and also on items that are not addressed to me (misnomer) for years now (most dry up after one time). If ever an item finds me at my proper location (general post) and offers something in my true name I could either accept it or refuse it!
BTW, the people at the post are allways trying to say that I am refusing. And I have to correct them by saying no it's not mine to refuse (no such entity exists (because I have not accepted nor created a colorable person/ shingle)).
__________________
"IMPOSSIBILIUM NULLA OBLIGATIO EST"
Dubuque rei potissinia pars prineipium est
Ad recte docendum oportet, primum inquirere nomina, quia rerum cognitio a nominibusrerum dependet. Co. Litt. 68.
Qui sentit commodum, sentire debet et onus. Bouvier's Maxims of Law (1856)
Extra territorium just dicenti non paretur impune. 10 Co. 77; Dig. 2. 1. 20; Story, Confl. Laws section 539; Broom, Max. 100, 101. Cujusque rei potissima pars principium est
I have been putting Return To Sender: Not Properly Addressed on items sent to the wrong location and also on items that are not addressed to me (misnomer) for years now (most dry up after one time). If ever an item finds me at my proper location (general post) and offers something in my true name I could either accept it or refuse it!
BTW, the people at the post are allways trying to say that I am refusing. And I have to correct them by saying no it's not mine to refuse (no such entity exists (because I have not accepted nor created a colorable person/ shingle)).
Henry Franklin just made a great contribution about postal codes regarding this. Being intelligence nexus between over 100 suitors as sensory nodes I hear a lot of experiences about the Postal Service being just that - process servers for the Treasury and other Debt Collectors. Having the citation handy will be quite helpful, maybe even better than calling out a postal inspector.
One of the more common problems is the clear plastic window envelope. You can marker the window over the address and the Postal Service will often cut the window out and redeliver it!
Henry has done quite a bit of useful research about this.
David Merrill,
Agreed, the cite is helpful. Recently thanks to macericola I went to mail some stuff at a post I do not normally use and encountered resistance due to the lack of zip Code. The man said he would be willing to read the law if I could provide him with the cite. His manager was not very interested at all..in fact it was like pulling teeth to get him to admit that the DMM & IMM are their authority. But once I got the manager to admit this in front of the worker I then was able to come back with snippets that showed how zip codes are voluntary and how I control my mail, etc. This was important to me because this worker not only thought that everything had to have a zip Code but he also thought that I should not be allowed to recieve my mail at general post (like the people at my post are somehow making a critical error or something)
BTW, I am awaiting a packet of info on the 2 cent postage that comes from a friend who went with a skeptical witness to their local postmaster and asked him to review with them the law on postage. When he had showed the postmaster the law cites, etc. The postmaster proclaimed "your right". Yes I will post the cites as I get them!
__________________
"IMPOSSIBILIUM NULLA OBLIGATIO EST"
Dubuque rei potissinia pars prineipium est
Ad recte docendum oportet, primum inquirere nomina, quia rerum cognitio a nominibusrerum dependet. Co. Litt. 68.
Qui sentit commodum, sentire debet et onus. Bouvier's Maxims of Law (1856)
Extra territorium just dicenti non paretur impune. 10 Co. 77; Dig. 2. 1. 20; Story, Confl. Laws section 539; Broom, Max. 100, 101. Cujusque rei potissima pars principium est
I suppose I am really telling you there is no set method to doing it other than the important thing. Do it. And do it timely. You will learn as you go how much you need to invest in elevating the authority of the action. The suitors typically spend $25 for each R4C; $12 Registered Mailings back to the presenter and to the US Courthouse.
Q1:
You will learn as you go how much you to need to invest in elevating the authority of the action.
The suitors typically spend 25 and 12 back to the presenter and us court. 25 dollars being the cost of sending it certifed back to the presenter? 12 registered being the cost of having a copy of it in your local courthouse? should i include an affadavit of questions included with the envelope and send it back with my own evelope with a po box or general post? or am i simply writing refused for cause in black marker on the same letter and handing it back to the postman? wouldnt it raise the authority by putting it in a brown evelope and include and affadavit of questions?
or is an affadavit not neccessary if all you need to do is write refused for cause? does it have to say us courthouse, or this just your muncipal courthouse in town.. But you guys were making comments about "why waste the money doing this"? i suppose the only time you would want to put money into the "action" is if you needed to elevate the authority?
there was also comments about sending it back from your general post and not using zip codes (jurisdiction issues). if they keep trying to send you stuff, i suppose you could put more money into affadavits. (ie. the name is a misnomer, this is not my zip code,) if challenged on this like the other dude was saying ( the cop said i served him and he refused. then you rebut if this was to go into a adminstrative hearing. ( the name is a misnomer, that is not me ( essentially refusing to contract?)
am i catching on to your logic?? you all use lingo like "suitors that meet my nexus point of cognition, they are usually sent to me by referall"
now being funny, i understand your humor, but people really trying to get down to the details of whats really going on i dont see the scientific-legal-psycholgical babble being neccessary. as we are all learning at different gradients and we need to learn things in the most common of terms first even though this may irratate the most astute and advanced legal patrons here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theghost
David, thanks. I understand what you are saying, and I have done several R4C's in the past within the 72 hour period. First, more details; my son was arrested on a...
Regards,
David Merrill.
P.S. One presentment went through the washing machine by accident. It is a bond agreement and note that I corrected the presumed legal name and assumed DOB before signing it in the booking area of the jail. If you sign knowingly to false information against yourself, obligating you to perform chattel, you encumber and severely hobble your chances of successfully abating the nuisance with a R4C
The suitors typically spend 25 and 12 back to the presenter and us court. 25 dollars being the cost of sending it certifed back to the presenter?
Typically there are two $12 Registered Mailings. Look at the clerk instruction.doc attached above.
Quote:
should i include an affadavit of questions included with the envelope and send it back with my own evelope with a po box or general post?
In the style of Memorandum of Law? That would be like me trying to teach Judge Roy Bean something about law.
Quote:
or am i simply writing refused for cause in black marker on the same letter and handing it back to the postman? wouldnt it raise the authority by putting it in a brown evelope and include and affadavit of questions?
In an honest world of people who understand that codes are not law. Otherwise you may need to elevate the authority of the action.
Quote:
or is an affadavit not neccessary if all you need to do is write refused for cause?
Right.
Quote:
am i catching on to your logic?? you all use lingo like "suitors that meet my nexus point of cognition, they are usually sent to me by referall"
Suitors are courts of competent jurisdiction who can prove it.
I am adding P.S. a post that I recently wrote that may shed some light. I am not trying to be esoteric about this but there is truly something to be said for doing instead of just hearing - which TheGhost is testifying to. He understands because he has been seeing it happen for years. However if the Prosecutor/judge smears you on your first R4C, like JRB would have it, then you might never get your wings.
Regards,
David Merrill.
P.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Merrill
The earlier the better. According to straighforward rules for clerks of court the material is filed at the time of rounddating/postmarking. If the material is prepaid with a stamp/postage then you are looking at a filed lawsuit on your kitchen table.
The question you might ask is Do I want to appear in the court of the Return Addressee as the Name on the envelope? If not, then write Return to Sender (arrow to Return Addressee) and Not Residing Here (arrow to the legal name or NOM DE GUERRE). Be sure to use a good marker (China Wax is best I hear) to mark through the Recipient Address and any barcodes. If there is any gravity to the suit then copy it (the envelope) and take it down to the post office. Get the clerk who accepts it back to Return to Sender to roundate your copy only. Do not pay any postage.
Being the Postal Service is process server of these suits there may be resistance like "Well if this is not your name we will quit delivering any and all mail to that name." They are required by law and DMM to deliver any and all material to that address or box, regardless of name. Inquire with Henry Bowman about that and he may post a link to the Regulations to show the Postal Servers.
Then the next part of your kitchen deliberations and adjudications is about the worth of intelligence. A typical suitor with an established evidence repository will weigh the intelligence against $25. One $12 Registered Mailing to get the presentment back to the presenter and another $12 Registered Mailing to the US Courthouse.
Regards,
David Merrill.
Attachment. When the presenter is a magistrate pretending to be a federal judge put the R4C process into one Registered Mailing for $12.
Last edited by David Merrill : 05-25-2006 at 06:35 PM.
Originally Posted by David Merrill
The earlier the better. According to straighforward rules for clerks of court the material is filed at the time of rounddating/postmarking. If the material is prepaid with a stamp/postage then you are looking at a filed lawsuit on your kitchen table.
The question you might ask is Do I want to appear in the court of the Return Addressee as the Name on the envelope? If not, then write Return to Sender (arrow to Return Addressee) and Not Residing Here (arrow to the legal name or NOM DE GUERRE). Be sure to use a good marker (China Wax is best I hear) to mark through the Recipient Address and any barcodes. If there is any gravity to the suit then copy it (the envelope) and take it down to the post office. Get the clerk who accepts it back to Return to Sender to roundate your copy only. Do not pay any postage.
Being the Postal Service is process server of these suits there may be resistance like "Well if this is not your name we will quit delivering any and all mail to that name." They are required by law and DMM to deliver any and all material to that address or box, regardless of name. Inquire with Henry Bowman about that and he may post a link to the Regulations to show the Postal Servers.
Then the next part of your kitchen deliberations and adjudications is about the worth of intelligence. A typical suitor with an established evidence repository will weigh the intelligence against $25. One $12 Registered Mailing to get the presentment back to the presenter and another $12 Registered Mailing to the US Courthouse.
ok, so do you just return it back return to sender or do you open it up and put refusal for cause and send back the presentment with your 25 dollars..?? you still havent explained when to apply what tactic to a given situation. you threw 2 different tactics out there?????
refusal for cause
