Court Discuss the tactics used by the court system, and how to develop your counter-tactics for success in the courtroom, dealing with citations, criminal and civil matters.


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  #1  
Old 08-27-2008, 04:00 PM
renascent renascent is offline
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Can someone explain to me why the cop can't issue the summons?

I was issued a court summons by the cop that busted me for a bogus charge. I have heard that this a violation of procedure. Can someone elaborate?
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:44 PM
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mrg mrg is offline
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Cops have guns.

They offer a "service" at the barrel of a gun.

"Judges" issue "warrants."

People with guns then come and kidnap you.

People who hire the gunmen have made it all legal.



End of story.
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  #3  
Old 08-27-2008, 05:25 PM
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amenmesse amenmesse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renascent
I was issued a court summons by the cop that busted me for a bogus charge. I have heard that this a violation of procedure. Can someone elaborate?
We could start here and play catch up. Notice its Shippen talking.

HOLLINGSWORTH v. LEIPER, 1 U.S. 161 (1786)

March Term, 1786

A rule had been obtained to show cause, why the report of Referrees should not be set aside, on the ground of their having heard a witness interested in the event of the suit; and, after argument, THE PRESIDENT pronounced the decision of the Court.


SHIPPEN, President.

The determination of causes by referrees under a rule of Court, has become so frequent and useful a practice, and is attended with so many advantages towards the summary administration of justice, that is would be extremely mischievous to shake their reports by captious objections, where the substantial rules of justice are not violated. The merits of the cause are solely submitted to them, as judges of the parties own chusing, and are not afterward; enquired into by the Court, unless there should appear a plain mistake of the law or fact.

Page 1 U.S. 161, 162

As to the forms of their proceeding, both parties should have an opportunity of being heard, and that in the presence of each other, that they may be enabled to apply their testimony to the allegations. The witnesses, on both sides, are likewise, to give their evidence in the presence of the parties, that they may have an opportunity of cross examining them. No surprise is permitted, such as refusing the parties a reasonable time to bring forward their witnesses, or refusing to hear them when they are brought. These rules, or similar ones, are founded in natural justice, and are absolutely necessary for the due administration of justice in every form whatever.

As to the kind of evidence which the referrees may hear, there always has been, and must necessarily be, in this kind of tribunal, a very great latitude. (Note: some folks only know how to do the horizontal bop, longitudinal reach arounds aren't the in thing)The parties, generally unassisted by counsel, are permitted to relate their own stories, and confront each other;(without guns, knives or hand grenades that is, trial by combat went out) their witnesses are heard even without an oath,( and even if they lie like snakes) unless the contrary is stipulated, or the referrees require it. Books and papers are inspected and examined by them,(blank books are the best as it can be written as you go along) without regard to their being such as would be strictly evidence in a Court of Law. And this practice being known to both parties before they agree to the reference, and the advantages arising from it, being mutual, there seems no just reason to complain of it.

In public trials in Courts of law, the judges sit to superintend the evidence, and no interested witnesses are, in general, permitted to give evidence to the jury; but referrees occupy the office both of judge and jurymen;(notice the dual office) their discretion, therefore, must necessarily be much relied on, and as they are generally unacquainted with the artificial rules of law,(nor artifical flavoring or dye number 5) they must be guided principally by their own reason. If we were once to set aside a report, because the referrees had heard an interested witness, we should open a door for such a variety of objections, that scarcely a single report would stand the test. Papers not formally or legally proved, or hearsay evidence admitted, would be as fatal to reports, as the admission of interested witnesses, being equal violations of the rules of evidence. (ad lib added)
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Last edited by amenmesse : 08-27-2008 at 05:27 PM.
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  #4  
Old 08-27-2008, 05:59 PM
renascent renascent is offline
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OK, thanks for the help. The 'summons' I received is not actually a summons, it's for a hearing with a magistrate. Should I show up? Also, I was issued a citation about a month ago, which I never signed and never R4C. Perhaps this was the wrong this to do, but my thought was that if I never signed it, what evidence is there that they issued it to me? (btw the citation was for car unregistered, long story, and open container that a friend was drinking, it's not related to the summons)
Any help would be appreciated. I do intend to challenge jurisdiction, but I am essentially a newbie, although I have recently started to read up on this stuff.
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Old 08-27-2008, 07:32 PM
Notorial dissent Notorial dissent is offline
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Whether or not you show up is your decision. What will happen if you don’t, is that a bench warrant will be issued for you, and most likely, your driver’s license, assuming you actually have one, will be ordered suspended, and then next time you get pulled over your vehicle will be impounded along with you, after which you will be hauled into court and charged, and then most likely re-jailed. A really fun way to spend the weekend or whenever it ultimately happens.
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Old 08-27-2008, 07:49 PM
valahian valahian is offline
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I am not too experienced but the cop needs factual evidence to prove a case against you and may be also impeached as an interested witness (witness for the state, or city whoever issued the citation)
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:16 PM
renascent renascent is offline
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I'm aware of the method for impeaching the witness, but I don't understand why the hearing is with a 'magistrate' and not a judge. And I'm also wondering what to do about the ticket that I never responded to. I do have a dl, but I assume it will be revoked for not paying said ticket
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:08 PM
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mrg mrg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorial dissent
Whether or not you show up is your decision. What will happen if you don’t, is that a bench warrant will be issued for you, and most likely, your driver’s license, assuming you actually have one, will be ordered suspended, and then next time you get pulled over your vehicle will be impounded along with you, after which you will be hauled into court and charged, and then most likely re-jailed. A really fun way to spend the weekend or whenever it ultimately happens.

Pretty much what I posted.
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  #9  
Old 08-27-2008, 10:37 PM
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weishaupt1776 weishaupt1776 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renascent
I was issued a court summons by the cop that busted me for a bogus charge. I have heard that this a violation of procedure. Can someone elaborate?

You said that you heard it was a violation of procedure.

So did you look at your state's rules of procedure yet?
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:32 AM
ezrhythm ezrhythm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renascent
...I don't understand why the hearing is with a 'magistrate' and not a judge.
Because the corporate defacto courts are not dejure they operate under fictions, hence they write their own rules.


I do have a dl, but I assume it will be revoked for not paying said ticket

There is revoked and there is suspended. For revoked one would have to apply all over again and for suspended one would only wait out the suspension term or correct the issue at hand. If you haven't received a suspension notice it is unlikely that the license is or will be suspended.
Then there is the issue of renewal which most likely will be difficult with outstanding issues.
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Last edited by ezrhythm : 08-28-2008 at 04:55 AM.
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