county foreign to United States

[rottweiler]

ALDINGER v. HOWARD, TREASURER OF SPOKANE COUNTY, ET AL.
CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT

No. 74-6521.

Argued March 24, 1976
Decided June 24, 1976
After petitioner had been discharged without a hearing by respondent county treasurer from her job in his office, she brought suit against the treasurer, the respondent county, and other county officers in Federal District Court under 42 U.S.C. 1983, claiming that her discharge violated her federal constitutional rights and seeking injunctive relief and damages. Jurisdiction over the federal claim was asserted under 28 U.S.C. 1343 (3), which gives federal district courts jurisdiction over "any civil action authorized by law to be commenced by any person" to redress the deprivation, under color of state law, of federal constitutional rights, and pendent jurisdiction was alleged to lie over a state-law claim against the county. The District Court dismissed the action as to the county on the ground that since the county was not suable as a "person" under 1983, there was no independent basis of jurisdiction over it, and that thus the court had no power to exercise pendent jurisdiction over the claim against the county. On an appeal from this dismissal the Court of Appeals affirmed. Held: A fair reading of the language used in 1343 (3), together with the scope of 1983, under which counties are excluded from the "person[s]" answerable to the [427 U.S. 1, 2] plaintiff "in an action at law [or] suit in equity" to redress the enumerated deprivations, requires a holding that the joinder of a municipal corporation, like the county here, for purposes of asserting a state-law claim not within federal jurisdiction, is without the District Court's statutory jurisdiction.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bi...ol=427&invol=1

[ezrhythm]

Hey, no kidding huh, since the UNITED STATES is a corporation too.

[rottweiler]

Originally Posted by ezrhythm

Hey, no kidding huh, since the UNITED STATES is a corporation too.

If a 14th amendment citizen had fired her the USDC would of had jurisdiction. That is how they get inside the geographical borders of the states, through territory ceded to them or 14th amendment resident aliens of the states/foreign trade.

Think of those medical marijuana cases in California where the feds claim they are using the powers of the commerce clause. What they are doing is regulating 14th amendment resident aliens who are considered agricultural products of the US/foreign products.

[palani]

Counties are foreign to each other as well.

[psholtz]

Originally Posted by rottweiler

If a 14th amendment citizen had fired her the USDC would of had jurisdiction. That is how they get inside the geographical borders of the states, through territory ceded to them or 14th amendment resident aliens of the states/foreign trade.

Think of those medical marijuana cases in California where the feds claim they are using the powers of the commerce clause. What they are doing is regulating 14th amendment resident aliens who are considered agricultural products of the US/foreign products.

The treaty-making power of the federal government is also an important way in which they acquire jurisdiction over "domestic" municipalities (i.e., municipalities otherwise under the jurisdiction of one of the fifty States), especially in drug cases:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/TREATIES.html

14th Amendment citizens, corporations-as-persons, etc, are what they are, but the law -- even the common law -- recognizes corporations and recognizes corporations as being artificial persons. Blackstones writes about corporations (as being artificial persons) in his commentaries on the common law of England (Book I, Chapter 18). For instance, you can't have a monarchy unless you have a corporation.. a corporation in this sense being a way to pass on and perpetuate property rights beyond the scope of the life of just one individual (natural) person.

Point being, the corporation-as-a-person thing isn't something that originated w/ the 14th amendment .. the concept is much, much older than that and comes to America from the Old World.. (although I don't think that's necessarily all that germane to the point you were arguing here).

[rottweiler]

Originally Posted by palani

Counties are foreign to each other as well.

The people in the adjacent counties are not foreign to me. The people who expatriated out of the counties and into the private foreign federal union are.

"A foreign corporation is one that derives its existence solely from the laws of another state, government, or country, and the term is used indiscriminately, sometimes in statutes, to designate either a corporation created by or under the laws of another state or a corporation created by or under the laws of a foreign country."

"A federal corporation operating within a state is considered a domestic corporation rather than a foreign corporation. The United States government is a foreign corporation with respect to a state."
[19 Corpus Juris Secundum, Corporations, §883]

[palani]

Originally Posted by rottweiler

The people in the adjacent counties are not foreign to me. The people who expatriated out of the counties and into the private foreign federal union are.

county 1292, from Anglo-Norm. counte, from L.L. comitatus "jurisdiction of a count," from L. comes (see count (n.)); replaced O.E. scir "shire."

Back then your allegiance was to a real entity: a count. You kneeled down, grabbed his right hand with both of yours and swore an oath (I think this was only done by the upper crust - too many villains to occupy the counts' time).

For the villains and others a court leet was held once a year to make sure everyone was up to speed on who the boss was.

The magna carta bound these counts (barons) together to allegiance to a singular king (or queen). In any case the barons did not tend to share their jurisdictions with each other willingly; they were foreign to each other and, in Law, remain so today.

[fulltitle]

Without Prejudice.
That case is rather old. Some counties have EINs or the like. And it may vary on a case by case basis. There is, however, obvious merit to the notion of counties being foreign to another. However, a County might be foreign to another County while not foreign to a State.

Also consider the word 'shire' and its potential relation to the word 'prince' or 'sire'.
[quote]

Originally Posted by rottweiler

The people in the adjacent counties are not foreign to me. The people who expatriated out of the counties and into the private foreign federal union are.

Ever heard of dual nationality or dual citizenship?

***

That case appears to be saying that if they wanted to sue the county they'd have to do it in State court or in District Court and not under that specific code.

t is quite another thing to permit a nonfederal claim in turn to be the basis for joining a party over whom no independent federal jurisdiction exists, simply because that claim derives from the "common nucleus of operative fact," giving rise to the dispute between the parties to the federal claim. Mine Workers v. Gibbs, 383 U.S. 715 , distinguished.

The word 'foreign' does not appear in the code. Also there might be pecularities concerning State of Washington [1889] to take into account. Lewis County is said to be Washington's oldest county established in 1845 by the provisional government of Oregon Territory.

In 1819, Spain ceded their rights north of the 42nd Parallel to the United States, though these rights did not include possession. This began a period of disputed joint-occupancy by Britain and the U.S. that lasted until June 15, 1846, when Britain ceded their claims to this land with the Treaty of Oregon.

[palani]

I will leave it to you to decide whether the sheriff represents King George the W. or The People who are the sovereigns.

sheriff late O.E. scirgerefa "representative of royal authority in a shire," from scir (see shire) + gerefa "chief, official, reeve" (see reeve). In Anglo-Saxon England, the representative of royal authority in a shire. As an American county official, attested from 1662.

shire O.E. scir "administrative office or district," from P.Gmc. *skizo (cf. O.H.G. scira "care, official charge"). Ousted since 14c. by Anglo-Fr. county (q.v.). The gentrified sense is from The Shires (1796), used by people in other parts of England of those counties that end in -shire

scīrġerēfa m (pl scīrġerēfan)

1. a sheriff, the chief officer of a shire

http://www.****soncounty.net/sheriff's%20office/history_of_sheriff's.htm

Originally the Sheriff was the King's man, representing the interests and authority of the King in his Shire, often controlled by noblemen not always sympathetic or loyal to the King. In preserving the rights of the government, he (the Sheriff) represents the sovereignty of the state (Tennessee) and has no superior in his county.

If you care to see the origins of this last quote you might replace the **** in the url above with d*i*c*k (without the *). My apologies to anyone who is offended by the name of this county in Tennessee.

[fulltitle]

Without Prejudice.
In some cases the State's Attorney of a respective County is officially the highest law enforcement officer in a County.