Is Ch 13 Bankruptcy silver bullet to end all?

[ntellect]

Greetings to all trying to break free from the Matrix. I'm back after much research and trial and error in the redemption process. I've attempted to implement just about every process out there and have yet to finally win. I've had small battle victories and bought time but haven't figured out how to win the war.

Latest news: (my house was foreclosed on 2/04, I'm still in): Mortgage company, got a writ of possession, I filed an appeal in state court of appeals (Appeal still pending). Mortgage company filed for a Motion to Pay Rent Hearing (although their writ says "possession" only), the hearing was granted. After losing the Motion to Pay Rent Hearing in civil court and being ordered to pay "rent" ($800/month and pay $8800 immediately in back payments) into the registry of the court or be evicted, I filed a Chapt 13 Bankruptcy to get a Federal Stay on the lower state court order. I got the Federal Stay, for now. Don't ask me how I got it considering my home had already been foreclosed. I'm willing to bet once I go to bankruptcy court and the "Trustee" (bank term) see's this, my case will be dismissed.

My thinking is, if I can somehow show the $8800 & the $800/month on my schedules as a an "alleged" debt, and "arrange" to pay it(I know that's admitting to the debt), that my case could get confirmed and buy me some time.

Now, what I plan to do is once the case is confirmed, file my private docs, UCC1, BOE, Debt Validation Pkg, B10(Proof of Claim Form), Power of Attorney, Silver Bond & Asseveration with the "trustee" (like I really trust him).

My thinking is this. The good ole boy USA is bankrupt and this has been "declared" since HJR 192 of 1933. What better place than Federal Bankruptcy court to prove that I truly don't have and can't pay an "alleged" debt because if there is no "real" money, no "real" money was ever loaned (according to Article 1 Sec 10 of the US Constitution) and the US is bankrupt. This constitutes fraud under the Federal Bankruptcy Code, Section 523(a).

Once again, I'm up against time. The meeting of creditors is scheduled for Tuesday, January 25th. "Theorectically", my ch 13 finance statement, schedules, etc..etc are supposed to be in before the meeting. Doesn't look like that is going to happen but I should be able to bring those docs to the creditors meeting, maybe. Another problem is, I don't know if they will allow me to submit my private docs at that time. If I try to file them before the ch 13 is "confirmed", my thinking is they will immediately dismiss my case.

Has anyone out there had any success or know of any cases dealing with this? Also, is anyone aware of the "coinage act"?

Peace and Blessings
Ntellect
Atlanta, Georgia

[vanton57]

I do not know this for fact and I do not have the documentation, with that said........

The Chapt 13 Bankruptcy is rumored to be on the correct trail from what a couple of people have told me. I am still waiting on the documentation.

I'm not sure I fully understand what was explained to me but it goes like this.....

As a secured party (your UCC-1) is filed, once you have filed the Chapter 13, you send a letter with affidavit and BOE to the Trustee of the Bankruptcy requesting validation of the debt. The BOE to be used if the debt is validated otherwise to be returned.

Chapt 13 is the only place that fraud can be discharged if you look up the terminology in the bankruptcy arena and look up the term "dischargeable". (I thought someone posted a little of this awhile back but I'm too lazy (tired) to go IN SEARCH OF....) ;)

If there is no validation, then there must be fraud and debt is discharged but as the secured party it does not go against you.

(I really need to get up with the folks that were explaining this one to me. They had a couple of people going through this process as test cases and I don't know if they have the final results yet.)

The logic/reasoning is the country is in bankruptcy. Since the country is in bankruptcy the real ones that have the control is the bankruptcy court (Trustees).

Again, this is something that was mentioned to me last month and I don't have anything to back this up to help you out. It might be worth researching or some of the board gurus to cogitate on this one and let us know if it is a viable venue to run down.

another good point is corporations are bankrupt, so, they have to prove they lent you something. submit defaulted affidavits where they agree they didnt give u any substance for the credit.

[scottinalaska]

Back in '97 I went through a bankruptcy. No creditors showed up. In fact, it was like a Communion Service at some churches. Each party went up, got a few words(blessings) spoken to him. No one objected. I left and went home. I don't think the judge was in any mood to read anything of mine if I had it. He wasn't in a bad mood. He just "had his job to do" and reading other things certainly wasn't it.

But, very cool if this is the final vehicle to expose the fraud!
scott

[vanton57]

http://www.the7thfire.com/debt_elimi...f_exchange.htm

Above link will help explain this a little better.

Steps to do this process as explained to me.........

1. Apply for Bankruptcy Chapter 13

2. Get the Chapt 13 approved

3. If you have an attorney that doesn't know about the fraud or believe in the "sovereign", you may want to discharge the attorney and work with the Bankruptcy Trustee direct by way of POA.

4. Prior to the meeting of the creditors send to the Bankruptcy Trustee the following:

POA - (strawman giving power to living man)
VOD
UCC-1 (signed)
Bond/BOE (signed) (whichever you are using) See above link for a sample

While you are in the application stage for the the Chapt 13 before approval you are in the public domain. Once approved you can move over to the private.

Read the attached file VaughnChapt09-BOE.pdf to understand the ONLY ones that can submit a BOE to the Federal Window of the Federal Reserve are member banks only (Bankruptcy Courts).

The second attachment is an actual court order discharging the debt. Note that the bankruptcy was dismissed before confirmation and the Judge did not sign. Read page 1 para 2 "It is Ordered" carefully because it states there that "the Trustee is discharged and relieved of his trust." (Trustee is the United States and this is relieving them of their debt with your bond). Also note that it was the Trusteee that signed off on the this discharge order. On page 3 you see that a cc: to the Pro Se - Debtor acting as own attorney.

For more info you can email vaughn_bey@yahoo.com

Also, look up the definition of pray in the legal dictionary

This link you can look up the word dischargeable http://www.legalhelpers.com/legal_he..._glossary.html

[Livefire]

Originally Posted by vanton57

Read the attached file VaughnChapt09-BOE.pdf to understand the ONLY ones that can submit a BOE to the Federal Window of the Federal Reserve are member banks only (Bankruptcy Courts).

Are you saying that the only place the BoE can be tendered legally is in a bankruptcy proceeding? Has interesting possibilities for people that have debt or ME programs not working for them as planned!

[Livefire]

Dischargable..........Debts that can be eliminated in bankruptcy. Certain debts are not dischargeable; that it, they may not be discharged through bankruptcy or may only be discharged through Chapter 13. Family support and criminal restitution are examples of debts which cannot be discharged. Debts incurred by fraud can only be discharged in Chapter 13.


Vanton my friend......I think you may have come across something there!

[iamfreeru2]

Livefire,

Stands reason that the alleged debts can be discharged in Chapter 13. Who is the one that is bankrupt here? Is it not the UNITED STATES and all other CORPORATIONS. When we go in as secured party/creditor it is they that have to prove there claim and not us because we are the creditor. We have already shown that by filing the UCC-1 and all the other docs we submit. Can a bankrupt entity prove they are the creditor? The answer is no. That is why you go into the bankruptcy as the creditor and not the bankrupt. The flesh and blood is always the creditor.

The more I think about this the more I believe this is correct. What ya think?

[vanton57]

http://www.frbsf.org/tools/glossary/glossReg.html

Federal Reserve System

The central bank of the United States, created by Congress and made up of a seven-member Board of Governors in Washington, DC, twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks, and their twenty-five Branches.


member bank

Depository institution that is a member of the Federal Reserve System. All federally chartered banks are automatically members of the System. State-chartered banks are divided into those that are members of the System (state member banks) and those that are not (nonmember banks).
Livefire

Are you saying that the only place the BoE can be tendered legally is in a bankruptcy proceeding?

No, the bankruptcy is only one place....

[ntellect]

I haven't had my meeting of creditors yet. It's on Tuesday, January 25. I'm a little confused because the your statement "note the bankruptcy was dismissed before confirmation..." Does this mean before it was "approved" or "confirmed." What's the difference between approved and confirmed. I've only applied for ch 13 bankruptcy at this point. I haven't done any schedules or financial statements that are supposed to be in before the creditors hearing. I thought the ideal was to do what they want to get it "approved" or "confirmed" and then submitt the private docs. Once again, I'm confused on the terminology of "approved" vs "confirmed" because neither have happened yet.

ntellect