Suing for Levying Without a Court Order

[JWR]

I think this is the correct place to put this. I just got through with a Notice of Levy here at work and have a couple questions on how to proceed next.

I'll try to give a bit of background first, but I don't haver much time to explain everything right now.

It's been two weeks since they stopped stealing from me at work, without a court order of course. Yesterday I got another piece of hate mail from the IRS telling me they are going to levy me again, I believe it's a Letter 1058 or something similar. This time it's for close to ten thousand for two diferent years. Although I intend to respond to it and request the CDPH, I also want to sue my employer for the last one. I am limited on time and resources as I don't have any transportation since I don't have the money to get my car fixed because of that levy. I am hoping to get my employer to either not steal from me again absent a proper levy with a court order, or at least get them to firer me (I would rather it be the former).

The first thing is which court would you sue your employer in? I'm not too sure if it would be a state court or not. And should one sue the company or just the individual(s) responsible for the actual stealing. I did inform them they needed a court order, along with other aspects of the law before they started the last levy. Also when I called the IRS two weeks ago the very rude woman I talked to insured me there was a federal court order to levy me. I talked to the people here at work and they never got one (I asked for a copy).

Second, I can't seem to find the garnishment laws on-line. If anyone could help me out here I sure would appreciate it. I live in Illinois, but earn my living in Missouri if it matters. The only stuff I've found on garnishing in Missouri on line mainly deal with child support. It seems almost impossible to find a ride over to St. Louis to search out a law library.

I know I'll have more questions as I go. I'm treading new ground here.

JWR

[test]

From another post:

01-26-2005, 08:13 AM
riverplow riverplow is offline
Waking Up

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 16
Default
I was wondering these the courts are federal and are worthless, what is the point in sueing an employer? and 99% of the people don't care {brain dead}.
Why don't we do our thing and when our bosses withhold we send them a bill
for the rest, just like the IRS, 10 days another bill, 30 days another bill, 30 days later file a ucc 1 lien. Even if we never see our pay so what, another mindless corporation destroyed for lack of credit, because just rocking the boat a little will get you fired, but don't worry they will find a reason it won't be about worthholding, so how cares if another corporation bits the dust. If these corporation are not operating for the benefit of the people why should they be operating.


mindless thinking not to legally advise

http://forum.suijuris.net/showthread.php?t=1051&highlight=mindless+corporati on

I do not have experience on how to use that strategy (or any other strategy for that matter) but perhaps if you read the whole post it might make more sense to you.

Also I find this site informative:

http://www.originalintent.org/edu/empltax.php

But you probably know all of that and have gone through it already.

About the law library, if you have some university nearby with a law school sometimes the general public can attend these too.

Good luck!

[PANICPASS]

I'm not too sure if it would be a state court or not. And should one sue the company or just the individual(s) responsible for the actual stealing.


Yes, it would be state court, and that is where you want to keep it. If you start arguing the levy issues, it will probably be remanded to federal court, and that is not where you want to be. To keep your case in state court your cause of action (claim) would have to be breach of fiduciary duty ie., your employer had a fiduciary duty to you, to check the law, to see if a court judgment was needed or not before handing your money over to the United States.

You will have to do your research on this because I do not know for sure whether an employer has a fiduciary duty to its employees or not. But that is the argument I believe you should make. Stay away from federal arguments.

[BOBT12]

originally posted by JWR:The first thing is which court would you sue your employer in? I'm not too sure if it would be a state court or not. And should one sue the company or just the individual(s) responsible for the actual stealing. I did inform them they needed a court order, along with other aspects of the law before they started the last levy. Also when I called the IRS two weeks ago the very rude woman I talked to insured me there was a federal court order to levy me. I talked to the people here at work and they never got one (I asked for a copy).

emphasis added.

Hello, JWR:

I think that you should consider suing the corporation and the individual that is responsible for signing over your earnings to the IRS. It usually only cost a few extra dollars to add an additional name to your suit. I feel that part of the reason to sue, regardless of the outcome, is to wake up those who are blindly following perceived rules, which in the case of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS (Snakes)) are wrong.

I think that you should start your suit in the state that the injury occured in, in this case Missouri. I would start out the suit by stating a claim based on the state constitution, I put in a link for this below.

Example:

Due process of law.

Section 10. That no person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.

emphasis added.

You will need to look for the Rules of Civil Procedure the court district that you are filing in. The resourses below may help. Otherwise, you may ask for this information at the court house that you file in. Just be aware that they may make an issue about giving any legal advice/information.

It would be nice to file for a jury trial, however, this often has a high filing fee (non-refundable?), and the court may require a high dollar amount ($50,000 or more) be at issue.

Along with your petition/plea to the court, you will need to file some sort of verification to support the petition. You may need to find the rule/code number and list it in your verification.

Of course, any documents that you want to include with your petition, should be included as an exhibit, i.e. Exhibit A, B, C, etc. This would include all useful correspondence between you, the company, and the IRS. This is to show that you have attempted to resolve this matter administratively, without success.

If you get the clerk of court to accept your petition, then you can wait for the company attorney(s) to file preliminary objections, usually failure to state a claim. If you have stated a claim based on the constitution you should be on firm ground, however, this is where the court will often dismiss the the case. If you want to pursue the matter you will need to act quickly.

The court should tell you how to cure your petition. Check the rules for time limits, usually you will have 10 to 20 days to respond.

Note that attorneys are not fact witnesses, while they may put in a apperance for their clients (the company) to avoid default, they cannot put in any evidence/exhibits that are not supported by a verification of the client. In most cases the attorneys will not do this, thus, they have no facts on record. Since there are no facts against your verified petition, it should go to trial. However, you must raise this issue if the court attempts to dismiss your case based only on the attorneys statment. The same is true if the attorneys do not bring fact witnesses to trial, which they sometimes will do.

Here are a few things for you to look at regarding your suit.

WTP Can’t levy without court order:

http://www.givemeliberty.org/RTPLaws...2005-01-29.htm

http://www.givemeliberty.org/RTPLaws...ION-Jan-05.pdf


Missouri Constitution
http://www.moga.mo.gov/const/moconstn.htm

Bill of Rights:
http://www.moga.mo.gov/const/A01010.HTM

http://forum.suijuris.net/showthread...6&page=2&pp=10



Legal Resources:

http://www.findlaw.com/?DCMP=KWC-GOOGFINDLAW0804

http://www.versuslaw.com/

I hope that this aids you in your suit.

[husky2kawi]

Good Luck to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BOBT12]

What the IRS will often do is suggest that you file for a Request for a Collection Due Process Hearing (CDPH) by using Form 12153. Then you will be deceived into becoming a Plaintiff, and then must prove that you don't owe the taxes that the IRS allege that you owe in their corrupt Tax Court.

I just wanted to add this information from another forum:

http://famguardian.org/forums/index....st=0#entry1582

[Ice]

Hear me out....

Some of these matters have already been decided... therefore "res judicata" should allow you to seek a default judgment for the damages.

Res Judicata: A matter adjudged; a thing judicially acted upon or decided; a thing or matter settled by judgment. (Epstein v. Soskin)

Rule that final judgment or decree on merits by court of competent jurisdiction is conclusive of rights of parties or their privies in all later suits on points and matters determined in former suit. (American S.S. Co. v. Wickwire Spencer Steel Co., D.C.N.Y., 8 F Supp. 562, 566).

The sum and substance of the whole rule is that a matter once judicially decided is finally decided. (Massie v. Paul, 263 Ky. 183, 92 S.W. 2d 11, 14).

Now go and look for the O'Dell case and see what ya got going for ya.

I have been attempting to get this info to a party that I had been assisting BUT that party has been non-responsive. Maybe posting it here will be of some help.

Ice

[font=Garamond][size=7][color=Sienna]

The objective here is to get the notice of levy released. In my view, the fastest way to do that is to rebut the presumptions that were made which made you the object of the IRC (Code).

You need to run, not walk to www.losthorizons.com and begin absorbing the material that is an outgrowth of Peter Hendrickson's book "Cracking the Code: the Fascinating Truth About Taxation in America." People are having tremendous success getting "liens" and "levy" released, as well as getting refunds of not only "income taxes," but social security and medicare taxes as well.

Now, with all due respect to "Ice" if you are going to mention something like looking up the "O'Dell" case, why just not make it easy for people and say, "look up the O'Dell case, which can be found by ?????"

Peace,

FF

[Livefire]

Ice,

Is that the case where the man took his credit union to court for not doing due diligence in determining whether or not the IRS actually had a warrant accompanying the notice of levy BEFORE they turned his share account over to the IRS??? The guy obtained judgment against the CU btw!!!

[JWR]

You need to run, not walk to www.losthorizons.com and begin absorbing the material that is an outgrowth of Peter Hendrickson's book "Cracking the Code: the Fascinating Truth About Taxation in America." People are having tremendous success getting "liens" and "levy" released, as well as getting refunds of not only "income taxes," but social security and medicare taxes as well.

I went ahead and ordered CTC and the companion cd earlier this week. Heck, it can't hurt. And it's relatively cheap, too, compared to some of the books I've gotten.

Livefire, is the case you're refering to the Boulder Credit Union one found HERE? Or is it another one?

I just found that same case in the Downloads section. I feel kinda stupid now.

JWR