"cash register court" senario

[seeker]

Okay, okay, my coconspirator and I, no wait my clone -- (judges words) He actually let me speak for my daughter. he was getting so exasperated!

He asked if I was an attorney.

I said I was counsel.

He asked again -- do you have an ARDC card (? I may have the alphabet soup confused) --

I said, sir, does anyone here have a license from a government agency to practice law.

He said hell, yes! (everyone else is giggling and smirking) and he whips out this ARDC card and lays it on the table (I told you this was a goofy court!) and said come up here and look.

I said sir, I respecfully decline to enter your jurisdiction. He just glared and then called the baliff over to bring it to me. It is a card supposedlyissued with the Supreme Court of Illinois rest at the center top under the ADRC and at the bottom above the names, that says license to practice law. (I want to investigate this -- anyone have a website?)

I said thank you sir.

The state's attorney was scrambling and grabbing her keys to tell her assistant to go get hers from her car. (she never did produce it)

The newest member of the City's Counsel staff (the judge specifically corrected his own use of City Attorney -- go figure that one?!) mumbled -- My first day and I get the Wild Card!.

Now, just some speculation here, but does that mean the only "Licensed attorney" in the room was the judge? Does that mean he was practicing from the bench? HERE COMES THE GOOD PART--

He then says, young lady how do you plead?

She starts again, sir, does this court proceed ...

YEs, but then you plead not guilty, which is what you're getting.

Your honor, I did reserve my rights under UCC 1-207 and ask that you honor that reservation ..

He says THE WHAT?

repeat, the UCC -- Universal Commercial Code, that allows me to reserve my right...

-- What rights do you feel were violated?

My right to Privacy, my right to Liberty --

Your honor, under true law, who is the injured party?

WHAT?

the injured party sir. When the law has been violated, there needs to be an injured party, so I ask again sir, who is the injured party here?

The People of Illinois.

Sir, how are the People of Illinois the injured party?

You broke a traffic law, --

Sir, the state of Illinois is a corporation. I AM THE PEOPLE OF ILLINOIS and I am not injured by this action. Please explain how the People are injured.



We'll schedule a jury trial for you. ..

Sir, is that a judicial determination ?--

NO, you plead not guilty and you get a jury Trial in (county seat).

Sir, I have not entered a plea, so I ask you, are you making that judicial determination? I would ask that the court note YOU have entered the plea.

He says so noted (NO ONE is taking notes by this time, should have had a tape recorder!, but the room is full of "witnesses") He proceeds to write on the citation and hand it to the clerk saying you have to give us your name and address so we can send this to you.

I say, Sir, the officer had that information.

Clerk - can't you just say your name -- not spell it?

No, you have the information.

Picking up the citattion -- this is in Washington, (it's not, it's in VA, but she is now in Illinois and has chosen not to "register with the state corp just yet) So he says, should we send it there?

I said that will work fine.

Now, he is turning around and taking off his robe, even though I don't think he was done signing his other things, and he looks back and says --Are you ready forTHIS?

I SUPPOSE YOU OBJECT TO THE YELLOW FRINGE ON THE FLAG, TOO!



So, did he NOT know what was going on??? Yeah, right -- he did not want to be boxed and so kept repeating but not affirming.

They offered no copy of his paperwork, no Order of the Court, anything. No one seemed to know what to do. So we will see what comes in the mail and in the meantime go tp the county courthouse and request a copy of the Order of the Court. This should contain the judge's signature (autograph) instead of the defendant. Everyone is supposed to sign the ticket with a pleading -- how is this one handled?

Keep in mind we were very respectful. Asked repeatedly, may I ask a question, could you explain, etc. He kept interupting and trying to shut us up, but we took a page from his book and started talking over him to a small extent, still respectful, but mindful of being heard and having our questions answered.

To me, the juedge made a judicial determination of not guilty from the bench. Do you feel my interpretation is correct? No plea crossed our lips -- yet a not guilty and request for trial is in place in the Court. No signature athorized such an action other than the judge's. Had he assumed Power of Attorney?

Lots of questions from the Cash register court. A lot of small exchange of words in the same vein. So, what next "advisory counsel"?



Seeker

[Bird]

seeker: "So, did he NOT know what was going on?"

You bet your asking he knew what what going on!

Judges go through special training re the things we study, and learn techniques/ tricks to keep the sheeple in a box. I don't know what your reply to his question was, but he probably had some sort of response to your objection, if you had presented one. It is not unlike the IRS agents with their manuel on exactly how to respond to specific inquiries, in attempts to keep the sheeple enslaved.

[rushpat]

If he did make a l plea on your part, then you should have asked him when he became your counsel? Two things come to mind here:



1) You could have then said, "Well, your 'honor', since you are now my counsel, how do you think we should proceed against the state in this matter?" I've heard that this can sometimes cause a judge to have to recuse himself. Probably not the best method.



2) Another would be to tell them that you haven't authorized him to make a plea on your behalf. Using the Rice McLeod methods, you'd then tell him that if he or anyone else in the room believes that they are representing you in this matter, they are hereby fired (or you could say that any power of attorney over you they think they have is hereby revoked).



Also, don't let them tell you that you are there 'pro-se', but in propria persona. Pro se is impossible because you can't represent yourself. You are yourself. Also, it implies that they have jurisdiction over you.



Another technique (don't know about this one yet), is to tell them up front, that you do not recognize them. I think we had a thread on this one once. Look up 'recognition' in the bouvier online law dictionary. Very interesting....

[Akira]

Seeker,



I regret I have very little time to reply atm...



First, give your daughter a hug and a big pat on the back, and make sure she knows (if I may be so bold as to speak for all) that we are all extremely proud of her and her decision to tough this one out. Most adults don't have the intestinal fortitude to do what she did. GOOD JOB !!



As a brief critique, I would like say (as Ice has said so very many times...)



Stick to the LAW... and state Facts



Supreme Court law decisions are trump cards... also..

every opportunity to speak should be seen as an opportunity to throw a stumbling block in their path.



You should have been there under special visitation... acknowledging that you are only a slave to another master... if they have a problem with you... please contact your master... it also clouds the will / intent issue as you were only obeying your Masters orders and assisting a sister in need.!



When pushed about practicing law.. quote the Supreme Court again... per my earlier post...



A quick phone call to the SOS and the Supreme Court would have told you if they had licenses and would have saved you the trouble.



Licensing is a convenient stumbling block, but the better lever is their constitutional oath, which you are entitled to secure a copy of from the SOS.



Assuming that you did as Ice suggested and sent in a motion to dismiss based on the Supreme court law decisions I gave you, plus the state statute that allows a good samariton to drive in an emergency... a pleading of demur may have been more appropriate at that point, but that's water under the bridge... you can still challenge jurisdiction at any time, although your best/easiest opportunity to do so has passed.



UCC is Uniform Commercial Code and it would have been wise to have 1-207 (now 1-308) plus 1-103 printed on a piece of paper so you could read them verbatum.



Your right of TRAVEL was violated... among others...



The state of Illinois can NOT be an injured party, if the can... would they please take the stand...



You didn't break the law... again you broke your (undisclosed) COMMERCIAL CONTRACT

Clerk - can't you just say your name -- not spell it?

Perfect ! lol



I will be suprised if you recieve a court date... it is not uncommon for them drop it at this point.. don't be afraid to call and ask about the scheduling



Since now you have even more time to prepare... study, study, study...



Read the Anti Government Handbook for clues as to how they will respond to your "patriot rhetoric". It's tough to win at poker when your opponent knows the cards you hold...



Egad ! I'm late !



For HIS Glory,



Akira

[seeker]

My daughter and I were rehashing this all over in our minds and it dawned on us that at one point the judge actually said -- If you are not entering a plea, I will enter one for you." His reasoning was that this was to preseve her "rights" -- all the while trampling them.



Seeker

[Jerseee]

Or he could have given you a way out.

[seeker]

Jerseee;

Please explain.



Seeker

[Jerseee]

The judge knows he cannot practice law from the bench so, if the judge did that--you could possibly have the case dismissed.



That is what i mean when I say he could have given you a way out. I'm not too sure but it is something to think about.