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  #1  
Old 05-18-2005, 07:07 PM
Mr. Incredible
 
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Patriot Act II. FBI can issue subpoenas without court involvement

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050519/.../patriot_act_1

It's time to expatriate.

I, personally, hate the U.S. government.

This makes my blood boil.

Bob
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Old 05-18-2005, 07:41 PM
wirlwind wirlwind is offline
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I'm feeling the same way, and I really hate to admit that. I'm really beginning to see them as the evil empire.
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When the people fear the government, you have tyranny; when the government fears the people, you have freedom-Thomas Jefferson
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  #3  
Old 05-19-2005, 05:12 AM
iamfreeru2 iamfreeru2 is offline
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The Government is not the problem. The Government can do nothing without men and women moving it. It is nothing more than a corporation and cannot move on it's own. It is the individuals that are evil and are destroying this once great nation. It is sad to say, but the people of the united states of America have allowed this to happen. We need to stop blaming government and put the blame where it belongs, on the people. Are the people not the ones that put these fools (elected officials) into office?
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Old 05-19-2005, 08:41 AM
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Freedomless Freedomless is offline
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iamfreeru2, I believe that you have hit the nail on the head. The corruption in the legal system has risen to an all time high. It is time the people take a stand and say no to the drug, I mean corruption.
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  #5  
Old 05-19-2005, 08:55 AM
Mr. Incredible
 
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Iamfreeru2,

You are correct that it is the people, but most of the "people" (your neighbors, my neighbors) are just blind and stupid.

The people that are most culpable are those who call themselves "government."

It is time for our duty.

Bob
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  #6  
Old 05-19-2005, 11:03 AM
iamfreeru2 iamfreeru2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedomless
iamfreeru2, I believe that you have hit the nail on the head. The corruption in the legal system has risen to an all time high. It is time the people take a stand and say no to the drug, I mean corruption.
Today 08:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Incredible
Iamfreeru2,

You are correct that it is the people, but most of the "people" (your neighbors, my neighbors) are just blind and stupid.

The people that are most culpable are those who call themselves "government."

It is time for our duty.

Bob

I agree that we need to take a stand. The problem is that most people will remain, deaf, dumb, and blind. By the time there are enough people to make a real difference, I am afraid it will be too late. As posted in other threads under "End Days of America" things are moving rather rapidly in the wrong direction and I see no indication of positive change. This is one time I really hope I am wrong, but I don't think so.
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  #7  
Old 05-21-2005, 12:04 PM
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Jerseee Jerseee is offline
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Iamfree,

Thanks for reeling the thread back into perspective for the readers.

All,

Our success stories forum backs up everything that Iamfree talks about. It is up to the individual to work for their personal freedom. Although collectively, things could get done much quicker.

Thanks folks
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  #8  
Old 05-21-2005, 08:52 PM
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David Merrill David Merrill is offline
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summons

The Congress cannot give extrajudicial powers to anyone. But anyone can issue summonses and subpoenas. The question is will you respond (appear) or refuse for cause (abate)?

http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov:81/isysn...3BuLnBkZg==/04
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Old 05-21-2005, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
The question is will you respond (appear) or refuse for cause (abate)?
Would it appropriate to abate? Wouldn't an affidavit be more in line?
Curious.
Thanks
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Old 05-22-2005, 04:55 AM
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David Merrill David Merrill is offline
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simplicity

Treating the FBI like a commercial presenter is technically correct. All "law enforcement" can be traced to "Division of Enforcement" for the "Department of Revenue" in one form or another. For instance the FBI is easily proven under the US Attorney General and one can find this a registered attorney. Therefore agent of a foreign principal. The Secret Service is Treasury and that is a foreign principal too.

Therefore a simple refusal for cause is technically adaquate in theory. That works as a simple order to show cause (why you are subject to debt action in assumpsit of the national debt [1933]). When the other party of the contract fails to show cause you simply utilize whatever court the FBI proceeds in for the record (your proof of service).

You seem to imply that some form of explanation (affidavit) will be in order. Appearance cures all defects in jurisdiction. You have to be very careful and understand the seriousness to which War and Emergency Powers and bankruptcy proceedings are taken with the central bankers. So it is a gamble.

1) simply refuse for cause timely and get evidence into a repository in the US Courthouse or

2) refuse for cause with an explanation for the US Attorney which may be construed as an appearance.

That is the function of Rule E(8). One takes note of the 2" Admiralty fringes and appears restricted if you are going to open your mouth. That way the appearance is restricted to the face of any contract for which notice has been properly formed. However you were taught about the 1933 Bankers' Holiday in high school civics so you may get mowed just the same.

Quote:
(8) Restricted Appearance.

An appearance to defend against an admiralty and maritime claim with respect to which there has issued process in rem, or process of attachment and garnishment, may be expressly restricted to the defense of such claim, and in that event is not an appearance for the purposes of any other claim with respect to which such process is not available or has not been served.

Cutting to the quick; so many people marvel at the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II without reading it. It extends into nothing unlawful. First understand the extent of territorial jurisdiction of the United States. Then you are left only with extraterritorial jurisdiction if you are out in the states. So no need to read what applies to the citizens of the United States.

I am not saying this will work. I am telling you that in the current macroeconomic landscape it is the only proper way to handle a summons from the FBI unless you are willing to be subject to their non-judicial court. You have a court too. Order to show cause. Their attorneys will understand that. But how far will they go with their bluff. They know that within 48 hours in concrete boxes most folks will be happy to submit to their jurisdiction.


Regards,

David Merrill.
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