What troops are capable of doing to their own brothers

[suijuris]

Want a good example of what members of the military are capable of once properly purged of all trace of loyalty, sympathy, empathy, humanity, etc?

Or do you need proof that this condition is even possible, or that the masters of warfare can turn most any soldier against anyone they please?

"As night fell, columns of armed soldiers and police officers entered Neve Dekalim, the scene of ugly protests earlier in the day, where Jews could be heard calling fellow Jews "Nazis"."

See for yourself:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4157998.stm

I have seen this story at the forefront of the news also, and what I keep seeing is the following:

Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz has made it clear that the troops will enforce the eviction orders.

"We will make every effort... to have law and order in this process and anyone who acts illegally will be treated according to the law," said Mr Mofaz - who added that the evacuation would take about a month to complete.

and another quote:


"We do not intend to blink," said Brig.-Gen. Miri Regev, chief military spokeswoman. "If there is no choice, the police will arrest all of the lawbreakers."

*******************


Coming soon, to a street near you.


Henry Franklin

[BoyntonStu]

Originally Posted by suijuris

Want a good example of what members of the military are capable of once properly purged of all trace of loyalty, sympathy, empathy, humanity, etc?

Or do you need proof that this condition is even possible, or that the masters of warfare can turn most any soldier against anyone they please?

"As night fell, columns of armed soldiers and police officers entered Neve Dekalim, the scene of ugly protests earlier in the day, where Jews could be heard calling fellow Jews "Nazis"."

See for yourself:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4157998.stm

If only the German Nazis had behaved as well as the Israelis called "Nazis", there would not have been a Holocaust and 6,000,000 dead Jews. Each family being evacuated from Gaza is given $250,000 and a new place to live. They are not being taken in cattle cars to death 'camps' and ovens.

This is another example of the misuse of language. Your comments do not fit the actions.

Thanks for the remote C&P news story.


stU

Both situations required Jews to do something they didn't want to do.

I guess you think it's OK, if they are pimped out of it, rather than killed?

There are some things worse than death.

You are a twisted individual, and from what I can see (I am nearsighted) you have no absolute values rather than to harass.

Henry Franklin

[suijuris]

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

If only the German Nazis had behaved as well as the Israelis called "Nazis", there would not have been a Holocaust and 6,000,000 dead Jews. Each family being evacuated from Gaza is given $250,000 and a new place to live. They are not being taken in cattle cars to death 'camps' and ovens.

This is another example of the misuse of language. Your comments do not fit the actions.

Thanks for the remote C&P news story.


stU

You are welcome and I am glad you enjoyed it.

My statements were about the capibilities of the military, and I see you didn't disagree with anything I had to say. Thanks for your agreement Stu.

And my quote about the Nazis was not my statement, it was a quote from the article I provided the link to, so cool it.

Here is an update on how the 'eviction' is going down today:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4159958.stm

However, your apparent position on this matter brings up some interesting questions on my part:

What is your source on the $250,000 and place to live for the evicted settlers?

Let me get this straight, you are supporting the force initiated by a political body against these individuals, ripping them from their homes against their will?

What is the different between this and ripping a child from his parents, against the will of both the child and parents, and relocating it to wherever the party doing the kidnapping desires?

The real issue is, "WHAT GIVES THE POLITICAL BODY THE RIGHT TO INITIATE THIS FORCE AGAINST THE INDIVIDUAL AND HIS PROPERTY?"

Is it the payoff? If so, then ANYTHING the political body wants do to the individuals is OK, so long as there is a nice payoff involved.

Then what next? Rape is permissible by members/agents of the political body as long as the child/woman or family is provided with a handsome fee afterwards? How about murder? The same rules apply.

A quote from the BBC update today: 'AP news agency described how one young woman was dragged away by female soldiers shouting: "I don't want to, I don't want to."'

Sounds like what a rape victim would scream - hey Stu, put yourself in the shoes of those soldiers. Would you actually drag these people out of their homes? Or do you just stand by and try to justify the force initiated by others because it is not as evil as the holocaust and/or there is a payoff?

Don't like the "payoff" option for justification of what is going down today? Me either... so let's forget about the payoff. Forget about the money. Whether the homeowner, rape victim, etc., is provided currency or not, it does not change the fact that they were forced to do an act against their will by a party using force as its primary means of motivation.

These settlers were made an offer they cannot refuse. Do you really think like a mobster stu?

Don't you believe in the property rights of the individual stu? Or do you believe the political body owns everything?

If the political body does not own everything, then where did it get the authority to remove these people from their property?

Did the political body have authority because that is what the majority wanted? Is it mob rule that you support stu?

Where did the political body get the authority stu?

Why do you think the settlers were disarmed first? I am certain if these settlers had not been disarmed, today would have gone down much differently, or not at all. Kind of like the holocuast.

If you support this move by the political body of Israel, you would support quite a few other so******t ideas, such as unbridled eminent domain, search and seizure, any anything else touted as being for the good of society that requires forced sacrifice by the individual.

And what will you do with your $250,000 when you are relocated to a location of THEIR choice? (3rd world country, ghetto, prison camp, etc)

Hey, it is for the good of society, you won't mind will you Stu?

[BoyntonStu]

"Want a good example of what members of the military are capable of once properly purged of all trace of loyalty, sympathy, empathy, humanity, etc?"

Your comments, not mine. There is much loyalty, sympathy, empathy, humanity, etc. as proven by the tears of many soldiers.

-------------

Officials say 66 percent of settler families have accepted compensation deals. Those who refused to go could lose a third of the money, ranging from $150,000 to $400,000 per family.

One Source: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/...--------------

The bigger picture:

Israel is making a statement in a time of war.

We are all at war against terrorism but we cannot hold any goverment responsible.

Imagine if a country announced that it supported terrorism.

When Gaza is 100% Arab and if there are attacks across the bounday lines, watch what happens. I predict that it will be very painful to the Arabs.

There was a vote for the action. In a democratic society, sometimes there has to be suffering for the greater good. I am against eminent domain for a private developer but not for a bridge or a highway to be used by all.


You must look a little ahead to understand what is presently happening. I give Sharon a B+ for his efforts.

Think global and you will understand the issues.

stU

[justice4all]

BoyntonStu, in your post you stated "cannot hold any goverment responsible".
At some point you will figure out that 911 was an inside job. How can three buildings (twin towers and building #7) collapse at the speed of gravity from a kerosen fire (jet fuel). They were "pulled" demolished.

Bush and crew are using 911 to create their "new world order" or what ever you want ot call it.

Money and fear run this world; and those who create the money also create the fear.

[suijuris]

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

One Source: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/...--------------

Your link does not work.

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

Israel is making a statement in a time of war.

We are all at war against terrorism but we cannot hold any goverment responsible.

Speak for yourself Stu, I am not at war with anyone.

And stop imposing your views on me, telling me who I am at war with and who I can and cannot hold responsible. You sound just like the current US administration.

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

Imagine if a country announced that it supported terrorism.

Ok, I am imagining that. Now what?

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

When Gaza is 100% Arab and if there are attacks across the bounday lines, watch what happens. I predict that it will be very painful to the Arabs.

And that makes taking land from individuals by force OK? Setting up the Arabs so they can bomb them all based on the actions of a few and take the land back?

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

There was a vote for the action. In a democratic society, sometimes there has to be suffering for the greater good.

Yes, thankfully for your sake we live in a Republic that is tolerant of So******ts.

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

I am against eminent domain for a private developer but not for a bridge or a highway to be used by all.

It makes no difference to the individual the property is seized from.

The only difference is in the perception of the so******ts who attempt to justify it.

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

You must look a little ahead to understand what is presently happening. I give Sharon a B+ for his efforts.

Think global and you will understand the issues.

I don't care about sharon or what grade you give him, or your perception of global issues.

My question is simple and remains unanswered.

Where does the political body of isreal get the authority?

You don't believe in god so that cannot be the source.

That leaves only the people.

You said a vote was taken. Is that where the authority came from?

So you believe in mob rule?

Say it aint so! When the mob rules, anything goes!

Stu won't answer the hard questions, as I have proven.

My only two remaining points to make is that

1. These Gaza jews, if indeed they were disarmed first, were stupid to allow such. They obviously didn't learn anything from the holocaust.

2. I make no admission, nor denial of being at war with terrorism, but if indeed "We are all at war against terrorism", my mind does not allow me to see how it would be possible to "not hold any government responsible."

i.e.: Was Saddam not part of a "regime" [government]? What about Iran? [that's where the US military is heading next] What about the VC? What about Germany?

My idea of who is responsible for the "terrorism" we are alleged by Stu to be at war with resides in a 10 square mile area on the Potomac.

Henry Franklin

[doormonkey]

I've only briefly scanned the posts here. Just wanted to throw another tidbit in. If it's already been mentioned, my apologies, and I'll remove my post later.

Quoting myself above. Well, I've read all the posts thus far a few times. No mention yet of what I'm about to say, so here goes...only it will be a few tidbits.

Did y'all know the American government is the mover behind this? Good ol' Condi & co. They have twisted Sharon's arm...threatening dire consequences to Israel if they don't go through with this. Welcome to the world of the Banana Republic. Maybe this is why the US is hated so by much of the world?

The US is also building a HUGE military base near Ben Gurion Airport, supposedly for Israel's use, but I have yet to see the US give anything without huge ROPES -- more like razor wire, attached to their "gifts". Try to find THAT little news item in the American press. IMHO, the US, and any other countries involved are going to be made to pay big time for their betrayal of Israel. I've yet to see a nation that gives the children of Israel this much grief without going down...I mean...down in history.

Coming soon, to a street near you.

- Henry Bowman.

Absolutely Henry. Because the US will get back multiplied what she imposes on Israel. It's a promise. It has always been so.

1. These Gaza jews, if indeed they were disarmed first, were stupid to allow such. They obviously didn't learn anything from the holocaust.

- Henry Bowman.

The Gaza Jews are hardly stupid. They are principled. They really do know this isn't the holocaust, and the men and women doing this expulsion are not German Nazi soldiers. They made a commitment to protest in every possible way but non-violently. They love their fellow countrymen, and are thinking primarily of the long term effects for all of Israel. Some have not kept that commitment, but for the most part -- it's limited to outside protesters or hot-headed teenagers. You might disagree, thinking it's misguided or foolish, but it has achieved something in the hearts of many of the soldiers, and maybe even some of the policemen (those are the tough guys...trained riot police who've been pschologically screened for this mission).

No, Israelis aren't stupid. This whole thing is tearing the nation apart, breaking their hearts, with perhaps the exception of a minority of GOONS, which every society has within. It is a tiny country, with only one "kinda sorta" friend, the US. Israel feels cornered by everyone. Bottom line.

The way the top echelons of the Israeli government see it, as far as I've been able to discern, it's either dismantle these settlements (more to come in the future too!) or have the entire nation dismantled by their "friends". This thing was the brainchild of the grand anti-semite James Baker...(not the reverend). Some of his quotes regarding "the Jews" might make a KKK guy happy.

BTW, there aren't constitutional rights to private property in Israel like there are here. There are Torah rights, and one day that will be applied, but not until the Messiah comes...he's on his way, and he will have his way. May it be soon and in our days.