Need Help With California Case Law

[pjmellon]

Hello:

I am looking to cite California case law in my revocation/recission of marriage license affidavit. I need to cite law that acknowledges marriage license as a union between man, wife and state. That is what gives them the power to take your kids. Can anyone help me out?

Thanks!

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

Get a legal divorce. That would end the license.

One interesting way to protect assets is to agree to be held for high child support payments- these I believe usually trump other claims.

[Shoonra]

A wedding license has a very limited lifespan (just a matter of months). It actually is a license for the officient -- the clergyman, the JP, the Elvis impersonator, or whoever is conducting the ritual -- to perform the wedding. The license either expires or is effectively exhausted by the wedding itself.

After that last event, you've got the fact of the marriage itself - not the license to perform the wedding ceremony - and the marriage can be dissolved only in accordance with the state law. Oddly enougjh, in those states that recognize common law marriage, it is possible to enter into a marriage without a license or ceremony or any other formality -- and even so, even a common law marriage still can be dissolved only by compliance with state law. There's no such thing as a "common law divorce".

[Livefire]

You mean I can't bring her before the city elders and say 3 times, I divorce you!!!! in accordance with the code of Hammurabi and have it be a done deal!??? AWWWW!!!! ROFLOL

On the serious side, I know Shoonra's statement is correct.
The license has a limited period of time for it's validity. It is worth noting, nonetheless, that this document with its county seal is exactly what they want see, when for example, you apply for health and insurance benefits for your spouse. Does this document not actually expire , but matriculate into a certificate of marriage?

[farmer_giles_of_ham]

Originally Posted by Livefire

this document with its county seal is exactly what they want see, when for example, you apply for health and insurance benefits for your spouse. Does this document not actually expire , but matriculate into a certificate of marriage?

I have personally been named as a beneficiary on insurance policies, just by declaration. "domestic partner", or "spouse": because personal law goes by status, not territory. Private law marriage is acceptable under the "full faith and credit" principle.

[Shoonra]

Originally Posted by Livefire

On the serious side, I know Shoonra's statement is correct.

Nice of you to say so.

Originally Posted by Livefire

The license has a limited period of time for it's validity. It is worth noting, nonetheless, that this document with its county seal is exactly what they want see, when for example, you apply for health and insurance benefits for your spouse. Does this document not actually expire , but matriculate into a certificate of marriage?

Actually it's the certificate of marriage that has to be shown to establish the fact of marriage for the insurance and other amenities. The marriage certificate attests that the wedding was actually performed and that the two are now married to each other. While it might be said that a wedding license matures into a marriage certificate, they are two entirely distinct documents. A great many more wedding licenses than marriage certificates are issued (because, e.g., the couple can't arrange to have the ceremony within the short lifespan of the license, so have to go back and obtain yet another wedding license, or the couple breaks up instead of getting married, etc.), so the wedding license cannot be used to serve the purpose of the marriage certificate.

[pjmellon]

I am specifically interested in nullifying the state's authority over my children under parens patriae. I need to cite California case law that acknowledges that a state marriage license is between 3 parties (man, wife and the state).

[gldskr]

Originally Posted by pjmellon

I am looking to cite California case law in my revocation/recission of marriage license affidavit. I need to cite law that acknowledges marriage license as a union between man, wife and state. That is what gives them the power to take your kids. Can anyone help me out?

Thanks

Originally Posted by pjmellon

I am specifically interested in nullifying the state's authority over my children under parens patriae. I need to cite California case law that acknowledges that a state marriage license is between 3 parties (man, wife and the state).

Until you understand the animal that you are dealing with your efforts will be for naught. The license is a non issue as Shoonra has explained. It does not concern you directly.

It concerns you indirectly, but once the damage has been done, once it has been procured, there is nothing you can do about it.

You see, a marriage contract, unlike others, is a lifetime proposition. The agreement was made prior to any subsequent action. The license was simply a prerequisite to the formalities involved with the legal registration of such, culminating in the issuance of a Certificate of Marriage.

Parens patriae can certainly be avoided, but only by a common law marriage. It is the registration of the legal marriage that invokes parens patriae.

The licensed preacher, an agent of the state, performs the ceremony. By acquiesing to such a ceremomy you acknowledge your intent to be registered into their jurisdiction, as the preacher then becomes a witness to the certificate; which then becomes prima facia evidence of a fact.

But because the marriage has a lifetime term, the subsequent registration, which is also a contract, carries the same lifetime term, hence the lifetime parens patriae burden.

However, while signatures and certificates may be evidence of certain facts, how those facts were obtained is still questionable and do they carry any authority?

What is meant by this is that a certificate is only as good as the one so certifying, and in this case the one certifying is a corporate entity. Just as it is in the case of motor vehicles (a corporate definition) and the registration of land. In each case, it is the registration into the system that creates the contract, each of which has a specified term.

It doesn't matter what the certificate purports to be the evidence of. Such certification proves the jurisdiction first and the evidence second. This is true whether it relates to birth, marriage, death, motor vehicles, land, whatever. The certification always comes first so as to underwrite the scheme that is attached, to insure the underlying contract, a jurisdictional derivative of sorts.

And if you know anything of derivatives, you will know that these are time bombs waiting to go off, not a matter of if but when. Your remedy lies in the underlying contract (absence of full dislosure), not in the resulting documents emanating from them.

gldskr

[Shoonra]

You seem to want to find some loophole in the marriage certificate as a means of blocking the state protective services interest in your children. No such luck.

The state of California - and every other state of the union - has a justifiable interest in protecting children without regard to where they were born, whether or not they were born in a hospital, whether or not they were born in wedlock, whether or not they have their own SSNs, etc.

In fact, assuming you're the father, arguing that you were not married to their mother makes your position in this fuss even weaker.

[moishanb]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

You seem to want to find some loophole in the marriage certificate as a means of blocking the state protective services interest in your children. No such luck.

The state of California - and every other state of the union - has a justifiable interest in protecting children without regard to where they were born, whether or not they were born in a hospital, whether or not they were born in wedlock, whether or not they have their own SSNs, etc.

In fact, assuming you're the father, arguing that you were not married to their mother makes your position in this fuss even weaker.

Shoonra,

My rebi said, "you should go soak!" Happy passover