Child Support when not on Birth Cert.

Recently, Had fallout with ex-girl friend we had a child but they was unsure about who the father was so they did not put me secured party on the birth cert. But now she is filing a petetion for custody, childsupport , and perternity. against the stawman. I was wondering if possiable I can deny the perternity and some how release myself totally of the child. Heard something at one time you could give over perternal rights to the child. After all she has done I need to just leave em in the dust because she even tried to send me to jail for 60 years over a lie and I was able to get that dropped proved her a lie in court, but I did try to get full custody of the child because of the way she mistreats him, but droped my case agaisnt her and now her lawyer filed this new one trying to get them to order custody, perternity, and child support and she states in it I was present for the birth but not on the certificate because she is unsure. I just want to stay out of the courts and be released of this ongoing miss.

Any Ideas how to respond where they not get orders on me for this?

Best Regards,
niteuser

just sign a voluntary termination of parental rights .

[powder]

Originally Posted by niteuser

Recently, Had fallout with ex-girl friend we had a child but they was unsure about who the father was so they did not put me secured party on the birth cert.

She was unsure when filling out the birth certificate and now she is sure... go figure.

Originally Posted by niteuser

But now she is filing a petetion for custody, childsupport , and perternity. against the stawman.

The "family court/law system" is their to help her NOT YOU. You are the PAYOR. Period. End of conversation. I have read more than one story about men being FORCED TO PAY child support for YEARS (5+) and they DIDN'T EVEN HAVE SEX with the woman.

Originally Posted by niteuser

I was wondering if possiable I can deny the perternity and some how release myself totally of the child. Heard something at one time you could give over perternal rights to the child. After all she has done I need to just leave em in the dust because she even tried to send me to jail for 60 years over a lie and I was able to get that dropped proved her a lie in court, but I did try to get full custody of the child because of the way she mistreats him, but droped my case agaisnt her and now her lawyer filed this new one trying to get them to order custody, perternity, and child support and she states in it I was present for the birth but not on the certificate because she is unsure. I just want to stay out of the courts and be released of this ongoing miss.

Any Ideas how to respond where they not get orders on me for this?

Best Regards,
niteuser

Do your research on a4v (accepting for value), r4c (refused for cause), CONTRACT LAW.

My initial reaction would be to demand they 'show me the original contract'

Signing a termination of rights STILL LEAVES YOU ON THE HOOK TO PAY.

[planetmark]

Do everything humanly possible to avoid falling under even the presumption of statutory jurisdiction. The statutes are there from the International level on down to make sure they can snag some man to milk for every child they manage to put into a family break-up crisis. Period.

Don't argue the merits, don't argue paternity, don't let them drag you into paternity tests, don't even let them discuss you and the child in the same sentence. Welcome to "life on the run". They will persue you. They will hunt you. Be prepared!

Remedy? Lot's of us are working on it. Suggestion: You are NOT a "person" as defined in the statutes. Start now to establish proof, and don't let them ever cross that line. And don't ever act like a "person" by contracting with the State in any way. Draw the jurisdicition line, and defend it with your life! Check the ticketslayer website for their instructions to get an idea on how this works. Do that affidavit default process on this statutory "person" issue NOW.

[Putting on moral lecture hat now... not to offend, but something to think about, and/or discuss]
The moral issue is that a child belongs to his father. A mother who will sell her soul, and her child's soul, to this devil's system is not worthy to raise a child. But this is out of wedlock entirely, so I dunno... I'm saying that a man should fight for his children, but even in common law, a child born out of wedlock is the mother's, not the father's. Look up "guardian" in Black's 6th - I don't have it with me, but there is some other terms like "natural guardian", which state the father is considered essentially the owner of the child, unless born out of wedlock, then it's the mothers? Something like that. If you didn't marry her, then you likely don't have any moral or legal basis to fight for custody. If she is mistreating him, maybe consider a private investigator to get solid proof, and have her declared unfit. Otherwise, if she's not gonna destroy the child, just cut and run while you can, because this system wants a man to consume, and YOU are dead center in the scope.

This isn't a traffic ticket or misdemeanor issue, where you get slapped with a $100 fine, or spend 10 days in jail. They toss all the rules when the magic words "child support" are invoked. And the penalty is 50% of your productivity for the next 15+ YEARS! No escape. No vacations. No "sabatical" breaks. You will not be allowed to NOT work until that child is 18. Fight NOW.

[BOBT12]

Originally Posted by niteuser

Recently, Had fallout with ex-girl friend we had a child but they was unsure about who the father was so they did not put me secured party on the birth cert. But now she is filing a petetion for custody, childsupport , and perternity. against the stawman. I was wondering if possiable I can deny the perternity and some how release myself totally of the child. Heard something at one time you could give over perternal rights to the child. After all she has done I need to just leave em in the dust because she even tried to send me to jail for 60 years over a lie and I was able to get that dropped proved her a lie in court, but I did try to get full custody of the child because of the way she mistreats him, but droped my case agaisnt her and now her lawyer filed this new one trying to get them to order custody, perternity, and child support and she states in it I was present for the birth but not on the certificate because she is unsure. I just want to stay out of the courts and be released of this ongoing miss.

Any Ideas how to respond where they not get orders on me for this?

Best Regards,
niteuser

I just want to add a few items for you to consider, in my humble opinion.

If you are not on the birth certificate, you are a somewhat better position. Mainly, you most likely did not sign the declaration of paternity from the Department of Welfare. This document seems designed to get the father to waive most of his rights.

However, once your ex file a complaint, the court will likely be very favorable to her. This complaint should be signed under some sort of penalty of perjury, check you state's Civil Rule of Procedure.

This may help, look around:
http://bookstore.lexis.com/bookstore...26perPage%3D10

Make sure that you ex-girl friend is there to testify, if she does not show try to get the matter dropped! However, the court will likely give her several times to show up. If you miss the court date, the court may decide against you in your absence. They will likely be a little slower if she does not have your information (mostly the the SSN#).

Kansas Bill of Rights

§ 10. Trial; defense of accused. In all prosecutions, the accused shall be allowed to appear and defend in person, or by counsel; to demand the nature and cause of the accusation against him; to meet the witness face to face, and to have compulsory process to compel the attendance of the witnesses in his behalf, and a speedy public trial by an impartial jury of the county or district in which the offense is alleged to have been committed. No person shall be a witness against himself, or be twice put in jeopardy for the same offense.

Emphasis added.

If she doesn't have your I.D. information such as the social security number that you are using, then you may be able to give them a hard time to collect anything. However, if she has this information, the court will be able to garnish your wages, take money from your bank account, etc.

Therefore, it will be hard to avoid the family (killing) court system. Remember that you will most likely only have ten (10) days to respond to any complaint that you will be served with.

The court will probably set up a conference to see how much they can squeeze from you. They will demand that you bring pay stubs, bank statments, and other information about your assets and income. In short, they are asking you to speak against yourself, which goes against the U.S. Constitution. Would you want to make an issue of this? If you do, the matter may go before a judge.

They will try to get you to do a DNA test if you say that you are not the father. Again, In short, they are asking you to speak against yourself, which goes against the U.S. Constitution. Would you want to make an issue of this? If you do, the matter may go before a judge. You may want to demand a jury trial, see your state constitution for the details.

Kansas Bill of Rights

§ 5. Trial by jury. The right of trial by jury shall be inviolate.

Emphasis added.
http://skyways.lib.ks.us/KSL/ref/con...on/rights.html

Kansas State Constitution
http://skyways.lib.ks.us/KSL/ref/constitution/

All of this is hard work, you may want to consult an attorney. However, be aware that the attorney may try to get you to take a deal that will spell your doom. Of course you may speak for yourself.

As to whether you decide to take flight, or you decide to fight, the matter is in your hands. However, remember that anything you give will likely be used against you. Thus, if you go to their conference, do not volunteer any information, don't go for their informal crap. Try to move it to a jury trial. The jury may see what is going on and give you an acquittal, or not. Yet, I think your chances are better with the jury than with a judge trial. I have heard of too many situations where the judges act as tyrants of the family court. A few acquaintances that I know, who work in the court system, are appalled at what they witness by judges, and the court system in general; the court system is set up to devastate men!

Just my opinion.

[idknow]

Originally Posted by planetmark

Do everything humanly possible to avoid falling under even the presumption of statutory jurisdiction. The statutes are there from the International level on down to make sure they can snag some man to milk for every child they manage to put into a family break-up crisis. Period.

Don't argue the merits, don't argue paternity, don't let them drag you into paternity tests, don't even let them discuss you and the child in the same sentence. Welcome to "life on the run". They will persue you. They will hunt you. Be prepared!

Remedy? Lot's of us are working on it. Suggestion: You are NOT a "person" as defined in the statutes. Start now to establish proof, and don't let them ever cross that line. And don't ever act like a "person" by contracting with the State in any way. Draw the jurisdicition line, and defend it with your life! Check the ticketslayer website for their instructions to get an idea on how this works. Do that affidavit default process on this statutory "person" issue NOW.

[Putting on moral lecture hat now... not to offend, but something to think about, and/or discuss]
The moral issue is that a child belongs to his father. A mother who will sell her soul, and her child's soul, to this devil's system is not worthy to raise a child. But this is out of wedlock entirely, so I dunno... I'm saying that a man should fight for his children, but even in common law, a child born out of wedlock is the mother's, not the father's. Look up "guardian" in Black's 6th - I don't have it with me, but there is some other terms like "natural guardian", which state the father is considered essentially the owner of the child, unless born out of wedlock, then it's the mothers? Something like that. If you didn't marry her, then you likely don't have any moral or legal basis to fight for custody. If she is mistreating him, maybe consider a private investigator to get solid proof, and have her declared unfit. Otherwise, if she's not gonna destroy the child, just cut and run while you can, because this system wants a man to consume, and YOU are dead center in the scope.

This isn't a traffic ticket or misdemeanor issue, where you get slapped with a $100 fine, or spend 10 days in jail. They toss all the rules when the magic words "child support" are invoked. And the penalty is 50% of your productivity for the next 15+ YEARS! No escape. No vacations. No "sabatical" breaks. You will not be allowed to NOT work until that child is 18. Fight NOW.

get your water-wings, you might sink

[idknow]

Originally Posted by BOBT12

I just want to add a few items for you to consider, in my humble opinion.

If you are not on the birth certificate, you are a somewhat better position. Mainly, you most likely did not sign the declaration of paternity from the Department of Welfare. This document seems designed to get the father to waive most of his rights.

However, once your ex file a complaint, the court will likely be very favorable to her. This complaint should be signed under some sort of penalty of perjury, check you state's Civil Rule of Procedure.

Make sure that you ex-girl friend is there to testify, if she does not show try to get the matter dropped. However, the court will likely give her several times to show up. If you miss the court date, the court may decide against you in your absence. They will likely be a little slower if she does not have your information (mostly the the SSN#).

If she doesn't have your I.D. information such as the social security number that you are using, then you may be able to give them a hard time to collect anything. However, if she has this information, the court will be able to garnish your wages, take money from your bank account, etc.

Therefore, it will be hard to avoid the family (killing) court system. Remember that you will most likely only have ten (10) days to respond to any complaint that you will be served with.

The court will probably set up a conference to see how much they can squeeze from you. They will demand that you bring pay stubs, bank statments, and other information about your assets and income. In short, they are asking you to speak against yourself, which goes against the U.S. Constitution. Would you want to make an issue of this? If you do, the matter may go before a judge.

They will try to get you to do a DNA test if you say that you are not the father. Again, In short, they are asking you to speak against yourself, which goes against the U.S. Constitution. Would you want to make an issue of this? If you do, the matter may go before a judge. You may want to demand a jury trial, see your state constitution for the details.

All of this is hard work, you may want to consult an attorney. However, be aware that the attorney may try to get you to take a deal that will spell your doom. Of course you may speak for yourself.

As to whether you deside to take flight, or you decide to fight, the matter is in your hands. However, remember that anything you give will likely be used against you. Thus, if you go to their conference, do not volunteer any information, don't go for their informal crap. Try to move it to a jury trial. The jury may see what is going on.

Just my opinion.

and the phrase, "refused for failure to state a claim upon which remedy can be sought."

and, you want to respond to the FIRST summons with an abatement because they will ONLY communicate with your (alledged) STRAWMAN;

a PROPER abatement to an initial Notice of Action against you cannot be correct because they can never correct the name of the intended party!

MR. JOHN Q. PUBLIC is *NOT* John Quincy Public

the former is the straw-fiction, the latter is the flesh and bone man

and in corporate court-bank, another fiction operating FOR profit, one fiction cannot deal with flesh!

scripturally, it is "be not unequally yoked" [to dead things]. []-mine

anything else?

"Recently, Had fallout with ex-girl friend we had a child but they was unsure about who the father was so they did not put me secured party on the birth cert."

Obviously there is some degree of un-certainty as to who the father is. If you are absolutely sure that the child is not yours, then do the paternity/dna testing to prove the matter one way or the other.

My rationale: Firstly: When things were running smooth with you and the ex, you apparently had no problem with the situation as it was, and apparently was willing to accept the child as a part of your creative endeavors even without the proof provided by a dna testing. (Believe me, the state will share this same ideology) That because you have provided toward the maintenance of the child, you have tacitly agreed that the child is in some way dependent upon you. Secondly: If the child is part of your creative endeavors , then you have an obligation morally to support the child..(read the scriptures); even if the child is not part of your creative endeavors, you still have the same moral obligation to provide for the CHILD, again read the scripture. That same obligation is placed upon all of us... I owe the child a certain degree of maintenance, and if the ex is being benefited by the state, then my taxes are bearing that part of my obligation.

A lot of us on this forum expound on the theory of sovereignty, but we oft times fail to act the part of the true sovereign. God being the only TRUE and REAL Sovereign, has seen fit to allow us to be the stewart of His Creation, and children are a primary aspect of that stewartship. If we cannot accept the responsibility that goes along with the status of sovereign, then we should all be willing to cast aside our search for a title that we are not fit to bear.


Just my opinion.

Jerry.

[planetmark]

Originally Posted by jerrypitts

Secondly: If the child is part of your creative endeavors , then you have an obligation morally to support the child..(read the scriptures); even if the child is not part of your creative endeavors, you still have the same moral obligation to provide for the CHILD, again read the scripture. That same obligation is placed upon all of us... I owe the child a certain degree of maintenance, and if the ex is being benefited by the state, then my taxes are bearing that part of my obligation.

A lot of us on this forum expound on the theory of sovereignty, but we oft times fail to act the part of the true sovereign. God being the only TRUE and REAL Sovereign, has seen fit to allow us to be the stewart of His Creation, and children are a primary aspect of that stewartship. If we cannot accept the responsibility that goes along with the status of sovereign, then we should all be willing to cast aside our search for a title that we are not fit to bear.


Just my opinion.

Jerry.

I'm gonna get downright disagreeable with this. First, have a look at Abraham and Hagar. He booted her and her son out, sent them away, good bye, so long, end of story. Did God tell him "send her a check every month"?? No! God said "cast her out". Abraham sent her away with a bottle of water and some bread for the journey.

Originally Posted by Genesis 21

9And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.

10Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

11And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.

12And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

13And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

14And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

If a woman, or the State, or anyone else comes along and takes a man's children away from him without his permission, then comes along wanting "support"... well, I'm just gonna restrain myself on what I think of that, and simply call it what it is: terrorism, hostage taking, or extortion. It is up to the soverign, nobody else, if he decides to let the child go, and if he decides to help "support" the child after its gone. NOBODY has the right to take a man's child away from him, and NOBODY has a right to demand financial support after the child is gone. Period.

If you disagree with that, show me the Scripture that suggests a man has a moral obligation to "support a child" once it is removed from the immediate provisions of his household. My little brain tells me that is pure propaganda.

No government anywhere has the capacity to be trusted with such a severe infringement upon a man's rights. You give them the ability to even THINK about taking one person's money for the benefit of another, and we are all screwed. No exceptions. No human can be entrusted with so great a responsibility as determining how much of somebody else's money is fair game in a situation like that.

So, as I was saying, fight NOW, and fight HARD to destroy the pretense of jurisdicition and "personhood". Get clear of the statutory jurisdicition IMMEDIATELY, and go into any future legal battles armed and knowlegeable, and DO NOT let them get jurisidiction. Then, if you want to find out paternity and maybe help out financially with the child, you can do it on YOUR terms, out of range of the thugs and their guns. Honor and morals and true obligations can be dealt with later, once you are free from the grips of the devil. The only other choice is life-time SLAVERY.

[quote=planetmark]I'm gonna get downright disagreeable with this. First, have a look at Abraham and Hagar. He booted her and her son out, sent them away, good bye, so long, end of story. Did God tell him "send her a check every month"?? No! God said "cast her out". Abraham sent her away with a bottle of water and some bread for the journey.[\quote]

Are you saying that the subject male of this current scenario is in the same ranking as Abraham? Are you suggesting that this current male subject has had such a relationship with God, that he could be placed on such a pedestal? Are you suggesting that God spoke to the male subject and told him to cast her out? I do think that you are adding to the related story of this current male that has not been stated to this entire forum by that male subject.



[quote=planetmark]If a woman, or the State, or anyone else comes along and takes a man's children away from him without his permission, then comes along wanting "support"... well, I'm just gonna restrain myself on what I think of that, and simply call it what it is: terrorism, hostage taking, or extortion. It is up to the soverign, nobody else, if he decides to let the child go, and if he decides to help "support" the child after its gone. NOBODY has the right to take a man's child away from him, and NOBODY has a right to demand financial support after the child is gone. Period.[\quote]

As I understood the story as related by the original poster, there was some degree of UNCERTAINTY as to who the real father of the child was. Now you presume to know (as the state presumes to know) what is best for this man, the woman, and the child. You in you omniscent glory, have looked inward to yourself and have determined that this man is in fact the father of the child. Now if this man, as he has so aptly expressed himself, is uncertain as to whether or not he is the father of the child, then HOW can anyone be taking HIS child away from him when we don't know for a fact that the child is his?

[quote=planetmark]If you disagree with that, show me the Scripture that suggests a man has a moral obligation to "support a child" once it is removed from the immediate provisions of his household. My little brain tells me that is pure propaganda.[\quote]

Matthew 7 beginning either at the first verse or jump to the subject at verse 7
"7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. "

I seem to think that this particular passage, relates a scenario, of if you expect God to do good to you, then you also have a responsibility to do good to others (he specifically declares your son).


[quote=planetmark]No government anywhere has the capacity to be trusted with such a severe infringement upon a man's rights. You give them the ability to even THINK about taking one person's money for the benefit of another, and we are all screwed. No exceptions. No human can be entrusted with so great a responsibility as determining how much of somebody else's money is fair game in a situation like that. [\quote]

I don't believe that I have stipulated that I trust government to handle financial affairs. I concur with you that we should NOT depend on the government, on the otherhand, the CHURCH has also failed in its' mission to care for those in the community. They (churches) have become another part of the government, and as such, if we are to do our part, then we can either give to the church (which will spend the greater portion on new pews, books, organ, recreation material for the child members, etc) or we can give it to the state, in the form of taxes, and allow them to give to those that are in need in the form of welfare, WIC, child-support, etc.. Or if you are that adamant about not giving to those that you do not trust, then take that 10% as a tithe and go out into the community and give to those that you directly see are in need.

Originally Posted by planetmark

So, as I was saying, fight NOW, and fight HARD to destroy the pretense of jurisdicition and "personhood". Get clear of the statutory jurisdicition IMMEDIATELY, and go into any future legal battles armed and knowlegeable, and DO NOT let them get jurisidiction. Then, if you want to find out paternity and maybe help out financially with the child, you can do it on YOUR terms, out of range of the thugs and their guns. Honor and morals and true obligations can be dealt with later, once you are free from the grips of the devil. The only other choice is life-time SLAVERY.

Your last paragraph, I can accept as a meaningful display of negative emotions relating to some injustice that you have received at the hand of those demanding that you give them jurisdiction over you. As such, I cannot argue those points.

Now, you did not address the other moral obligations that we as a community of man have toward one another.. to care for one another, to meet the needs of those that are not capable of providing for themselves.. Etc.

Jerry.