Child Support Battle

[ezrhythm]

How did it go last Thursday? Any latest?

[IAMI]

It didn't go very well... working on solutions. Too much to post here... if you're interested, please follow the post at fathers.ca (listed above).
If anyone has anything to add, or comment, please post your replies!

Admin: I apologize for sending people out, I'm enjoying both forums, I just don't want to double post everything.

Cheers,
IAMI

[IAMI]

Does this mean that they (Ex's all over the ****ry ;)) get to re-evaluate what payors "should" have been paying?

Quote from article:
"That's a very dramatic change in the landscape for child support. Those families are going to be basically scurrying trying to figure out what child support should have been paid over the course of the last decade."

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/Top...howbyline=True

I can just imagine their little beady greedy eyes lighting up... Ooohh... 10's of thousands of dollars I get to claim! What a bonus!! WOot!

I tell you... if this is what starts to happen, there is going to be a whole slew of murders reported... not that I'm suggesting anything.

IAMI

[IAMI]

So... it's been a while since I posted here, but a lot has happened and yet, not so much.
I ended up serving my ex the Notice of Demand with a process server in August. She had 10 days to respond.
She defaulted of course (no response) so I sent her a letter of default via regular mail... not sure if she got it or not, but I figure it's a notice and doesn't require a response so meh.
Anyway... I had my little package of material to file with the court house... and decided to try and fax them the documents. I included a cover letter directing the clerk of the court to file and that there is no rule in any of the Acts, laws, statutes or other which state that I cannot file my Notice of Demand. This was a reason for them not accepting my filing in person, they didn't recognize the documents and said they can only accept "prescribed" family law documents (which are different in each province by the way). They claimed that the Family Law Rules do not allow my form. The rules ACTUALLY only state that forms in their "prescribed" list can be modified to suit the situation as required and that forms must be typed black ink on white paper... both sides if you like.
So after faxing them my package (Letter, Notice of Demand, Affidavit of Signature Rescindature, Affidavit of Service from the Process server, and Default Letter to the Ex) they faxed it back stating that they must be " filed properly at the court counter". etc.

So, that's where I'm at... Powder suggested I go in with a witness and tell them to file... and should they continue to refuse that I should serve them with a writ of mandamus. Did some research on that, and not sure how to go about getting that... civil court or federal case to be created first? Need a "higher" court to issue the demand to the lower court.

Anyway, some other things have cropped up in my mind about doing this... First off is that my file is supposedly a "final order" and I'm not sure if they'll accept any more documents in the case file without re-initiating some court procedures. I'm leary of doing this (could try and vary the order, or something) because I'm not sure about my whole standing with juristiction... how to avoid contracting with the courts unintentionally. But if the case is not "active" or whatever, what will filing do? It will just sit in the case... the judge won't/can't initiate anything etc.

Another thing is that I have not been paying child support. I have refused to do so. I'm prbably at 5k in arrears by now... and I've been receiving notices from the FRO (Family Responsibility Office - Debt Collector/Enforcer for the Ontario Family Courts). They've said they're going to affect my credit rating, garnish my income tax returns etc. Yadda yadda...
I have sent all notices back "refused of cause" within 72 hours of receiving them.
The thing is... none of this goes to the issue of whether the courts have the right to make me pay child support... or interfere with family matters at all. My notice of demand was to my ex... she's the one who contacted the courts to initiate child support (actually Mothers Allowance - Welfare made her go after me 14 years ago). So if the NoD is to her... to prove her claim or forfeit... filing in the case really doesn't do anything either.
The next court battle will have nothing to do with these issues... it will simply be a battle with the FRO and possibly a "contempt" of court fight, due to the fact that I am not paying after being ordered to. They won't even hear my case about them not having juristiction etc. because that is not the issue at hand. So, I'm not sure what I should be doing in that case...

So... Does anyone have any advice on possible procedure here? My goal is to get rid of the court order, and pay for my kids under my own power without interference.

OH... there is another thing. The Default Letter to my Ex states (as a condition of failure of the NoD) that I now have Power of Attorney over our case and can quash any future orders and exisiting ones. The FRO has documents on their website which allow for support payors and recipients to withdraw from the program.
There is an authorization of third party form... which I could fill out on behalf of the ex, authorizing me to act for her. Then there is the withdraw (and unilateral withdrawl) forms which require both of our signatures... I could sign for her there too? Problem is... how to prove to the FRO that I have PoA? That default needs to be filed somewhere... no?
I mean.. it can't all be private contracts can it?

Anyway, please offer any suggestions.
Cheers!
IAMI

[IAMI]

I just read something interesting on another post by David Merrill... "They will probably attempt to notify you that they did that anyway and simply Refuse that for Cause in a timely manner and publish the R4C in your county clerk and recorder office."

County Clerk and Recorder Office

I just checked my local area and I have a "municipal Clerk Office" close by... they state the following:
"Municipal Clerk’s Office
Council Services Division – maintains municipal records, conducts municipal elections, acts as secretariat to Council and its Committees. Responsible for the issuance of marriage licenses, lottery licenses, preparation of certified documents, registration of vital statistics and the processing of requests received through the Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act.

Municipal Law Enforcement Division - responsible for ensure compliance with all municipal by-laws, including property standards and trade licensing, and specific Provincial legislation (e.g. Line Fences Act). This Division is also responsible for enforcing the Municipality’s Traffic By-law."

Is it possible that I could file my paperwork here? My Notice of Demand, the Default, and the Affidavit of Rescinditure of Signatures?
Hmm... I will contact them and see if they accept filing of documents just for public record or such thing.
Cheers,
IAMI

[fighting_father]

Hi IAMI,

Did you not ask for 'original contract' signed in wet ink by both parties from FRO in NoD ?

Your battle I see goes on, great that you have posted it here. Looking forward to the responses.
I think I will do the same and get some incredible responses from forum members.

First time posting here, incredible site, and of course incredible forum members with great Knowledge..

Where is that guy called POWDER ?

Keep posting,
Cheers

[charlesa6]

fighting_father, welcome to the suijuris forum.

[IAMI]

Originally Posted by fighting_father

Hi IAMI,

Did you not ask for 'original contract' signed in wet ink by both parties from FRO in NoD ?

Your battle I see goes on, great that you have posted it here. Looking forward to the responses.
I think I will do the same and get some incredible responses from forum members.

First time posting here, incredible site, and of course incredible forum members with great Knowledge..

Where is that guy called POWDER ?

Keep posting,
Cheers

Hi Fighting_Father,
Yes, the NoD asked for the original instrument that created the obligation. Validation and verification of them as well... here is the list on my NoD:

1. Answer all of the following in affidavit form and sworn under penalty of perjury:
1. Is this civil action in the nature of a breach of contract or breach of legal duty?
2. What is/are the instrument(s) which created the alleged obligation in this civil action?
3. Exactly what are ALL of the terms and conditions from the instrument(s) which created the alleged obligation?
2. Production of the original instrument(s) which created the alleged obligation.
3. Validation of the original instrument(s) which created the alleged obligation;
4. Verification of the original instrument(s) which created the alleged obligation;

And then I list the failur clause.

Cheers,
IAMI

[IAMI]

One thing I've noticed is that the FRO and other agencies point to the "final order" of the court when asked to prove the orginial instrument. My ex may think similarly.
Someone had mentioned that the court order is the "fruits" of a contract and not the originating contract itself...

Now, I have rescinded my signatures on all of my court documents due to signing under coercion, threat, duress etc (Affidavit filed with the Minister of Justice - no reply) and so any contracts have been nulled/voided anyway.
But when one chooses not to sign these document (should a future time come when I will be presented a new document to sign in family court) I have been told that the judge may proceed anyway... so why do they need me to sign the contract/consent/garnishment if they can just do it without me? And having rescinded, what's to stop them from just re-initiating the order ex-parte?

Cheers,
IAMI

[powder]

Joinder to the case stops them from proceeding without you.

They will continue to 'offer' you to sign these documents in the 'appearances' and 'interests' of "justice" - whatever that is.

Sign it - under duress. That would be worth a few good chuckles.