The breakfast of champs

[iamfreeru2]

Originally Posted by buck09

I wasn't questioning your faith, I was simply warning you against the danger of saying that God prohibits us from something he does't...

You had said:


...which seemed to me like you thought God didn't intend for us to drink cow's milk. Do you find a specific scriptural prohibition against drinking cow (or goat, yak, giraffe) milk? If not, would you agree that God gave us the liberty to decide what milk we consume and what we don't? If we don't have the liberty to choose to drink cow milk, then by logical implication, we can only eat what he says we can eat, correct?

What I said is that He gave women breasts to feed their babies with. Out of all of YHWH's creation we are the only ones that drink milk after being weaned. What does weaned mean? Is mother's milk best or cow milk? Milk causes lots of health problems and is a scientific fact. YHWH does not have to prohibit something for it to be bad for you. Does YHWH specifically prohibit eating Poinsetta leaves? No, but they are poisonous are they not? I do not think they are even referenced in the Bible. The fact is there are many substances not referenced in the Bible that are bad for us. Does that mean I am putting words in YHWHs mouth because I said "If we were intended to drink cow's milk YHWH would not have given women breasts with milk in them." Do not put words in my mouth.

[iamfreeru2]

I do not know what happened but had a double post. I deleted the duplicate.

Originally Posted by iamfreeru2

Milk causes lots of health problems and is a scientific fact.

Uhhhh, I'd have to disclaim that, as being pasteurized & homogenized milk.

I have actually experienced health benefits from raw milk.

Btw, do you have amalgam (mercury) fillings? I do, and I want them gone.

Just don't be so hard on milk without disclaiming whether or not it is commercially processed. Please?

;)

Henry Franklin

[iamfreeru2]

Originally Posted by HenryBowman

Uhhhh, I'd have to disclaim that, as being pasteurized & homogenized milk.

I have actually experienced health benefits from raw milk.

Btw, do you have amalgam (mercury) fillings? I do, and I want them gone.

Just don't be so hard on milk without disclaiming whether or not it is commercially processed. Please?

;)

Henry Franklin

My amalgams have been mostly removed. Still have a couple that will be removed shortly. By the way what has amalgams got to do with milk? Like I said there are many things that are bad for us that there is no prohibition in Scripture for.

Sorry Henry, but even unprocessed raw milk has its own set of problems. I have had friends get very ill from drinking it. I have seen this first hand. I never said people have to believe what I am saying. I have doctor friends that agree with what I am saying as well. There are pros and cons on both sides. It is a fact milk has been shown to have health problems, both raw and pasteurized. We can agree to disagree and that is OK.

Originally Posted by iamfreeru2

My amalgams have been mostly removed. Still have a couple that will be removed shortly. By the way what has amalgams got to do with milk? Like I said there are many things that are bad for us that there is no prohibition in Scripture for.

Sorry Henry, but even unprocessed raw milk has its own set of problems. I have had friends get very ill from drinking it. I have seen this first hand. I never said people have to believe what I am saying. I have doctor friends that agree with what I am saying as well. There are pros and cons on both sides. It is a fact milk has been shown to have health problems, both raw and pasteurized. We can agree to disagree and that is OK.

I agree to disagree, but I agree to that because 1.) Most all doctors believe that a pill will fix everything; 2.) The bible does not prohibit drinking milk, in fact, it is mentioned many times; 3) The bible does speak of defiling the temple, which I believe now (didn't know then) that amalgams are doing; and 4.) I have not seen those facts to which you refer.

(Amalgams have nothing to do with milk. My point was that they are much more dangerous than any perception that milk is dangerous, and I don't hear doctors telling us to get rid of them.)

I won't respond again, because we do disagree firmly, but I respect your right to your own opinion.

Henry Franklin.

P.S. I think we hijacked this thread, and my apologies are extended to SJ for that.

[iamfreeru2]

All I will say is I do not go to doctors that know nothing about nutrition. I will agree with you that amalgams are more dangerous than milk as well. We will just leave it at that. Thanks HB.

Originally Posted by iamfreeru2

What I said is that He gave women breasts to feed their babies with. Out of all of YHWH's creation we are the only ones that drink milk after being weaned. What does weaned mean? Is mother's milk best or cow milk?

You're starting with the unproven premise that milk is only for babies. (Faulty premises lead to faulty conclusions.) Man has been drinking the milk of animals for thousands of years.

If all the scare claims for milk were true, then societies that don't drink milk should not be suffering from the same ill-effects that we anglo milk drinkers do. Yet the rates of cancer and other supposedly milk-caused ailments is roughly the same across milk vs. non-milk populations throughout the world.

Sorry that you're buying all this nonsense perpetuated by PETA but, scientifically speaking, the jury is still out on whether milk is really all that bad for you or not. Obviously, since people have been drinking it for thousands of years, whatever risks are involved aren't all that serious.

Does that mean I am putting words in YHWHs mouth because I said "If we were intended to drink cow's milk YHWH would not have given women breasts with milk in them." Do not put words in my mouth.

Well, yeah, in fact, you are. Any time you say (or imply) that YHWH intends or doesn't intend something, that's exactly what you're doing. YHWH doesn't have intentions like we do. Intentions imply mutability, which is part of the creation, not the creator. You are first implying that YHWH only made milk for babies, which you have no evidence he did or did not, and then you're relying on logically untenable pseudoscience to back up your claim. (Pseudoscience being another abuse of God's created order - that is, that things can be empirically and scientifically proven through a regular created order.)

As far as I can tell, YHWH made milk and it's a blessing!!

Genesis 18:7-8
7 And Abraham ran to the herd and took a calf, tender and good, and gave it to a young man, who prepared it quickly. 8 Then he took curds and milk and the calf that he had prepared, and set it before them. And he stood by them under the tree while they ate.

Look earlier in the passage - to whom is Abraham serving milk?? TO THE LORD HIMSELF! (Correct me if I'm wrong, but generally in the OT, when LORD is all capitalized, they're referring to YHWH, right??)

Exodus 3:8
and I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land to a good and broad land, a land flowing with milk and honey...

Milk is associated with the single greatest blessing this side of creation - the land of Isreal (the church). If milk were such a bad thing for us, surely it wouldn't be put in such high esteem, would it?

More milk in the Bible - I see people drinking it all over the place, and every time, it's associated with richness, blessing and good things. As far as I can tell, God thinks that animal milk is a very good thing.

Judges 4:19
And he said to her, “Please give me a little water to drink, for I am thirsty.” So she opened a skin of milk and gave him a drink and covered him.

Job 10:10 (referring to the blessings Job once had, but now does not)
Did you not pour me out like milk and curdle me like cheese?

Proverbs 27:27 (goat milk is good for raising girls)
There will be enough goats' milk for your food, for the food of your household
and maintenance for your girls.

Sorry, but neither the Bible, nor science is on your side.

[iamfreeru2]

Originally Posted by buck09

You're starting with the unproven premise that milk is only for babies. (Faulty premises lead to faulty conclusions.) Man has been drinking the milk of animals for thousands of years.

If all the scare claims for milk were true, then societies that don't drink milk should not be suffering from the same ill-effects that we anglo milk drinkers do. Yet the rates of cancer and other supposedly milk-caused ailments is roughly the same across milk vs. non-milk populations throughout the world.

Sorry that you're buying all this nonsense perpetuated by PETA but, scientifically speaking, the jury is still out on whether milk is really all that bad for you or not. Obviously, since people have been drinking it for thousands of years, whatever risks are involved aren't all that serious.




Well, yeah, in fact, you are. Any time you say (or imply) that YHWH intends or doesn't intend something, that's exactly what you're doing. YHWH doesn't have intentions like we do. Intentions imply mutability, which is part of the creation, not the creator. You are first implying that YHWH only made milk for babies, which you have no evidence he did or did not, and then you're relying on logically untenable pseudoscience to back up your claim. (Pseudoscience being another abuse of God's created order - that is, that things can be empirically and scientifically proven through a regular created order.)

As far as I can tell, YHWH made milk and it's a blessing!!



Look earlier in the passage - to whom is Abraham serving milk?? TO THE LORD HIMSELF! (Correct me if I'm wrong, but generally in the OT, when LORD is all capitalized, they're referring to YHWH, right??)



Milk is associated with the single greatest blessing this side of creation - the land of Isreal (the church). If milk were such a bad thing for us, surely it wouldn't be put in such high esteem, would it?

More milk in the Bible - I see people drinking it all over the place, and every time, it's associated with richness, blessing and good things. As far as I can tell, God thinks that animal milk is a very good thing.



Sorry, but neither the Bible, nor science is on your side.

You are correct that the Bible does speak about drinking milk. However, mother's milk is always better than cow's milk. I will rephrase my words to say that babies are intended to drink mother's milk over cow's milk and if this were not so YHWH would not have created it this way. The babies are also weaned off of their mother's milk like all other animals are. We are the only ones that consume it after being weaned. Would you agree with that statement? Also the milk back then was certainly not contaminated like it is today. The more man sins and contaminates our environment the more our food is contaminated. The more we genetically mess with our foods the worse things become. YHWH never entended for His creation to be tampered with. I most emphatically deny that science has not shown milk to be dangerous.

If you would like to continue this debate I would suggest you go to the "Dangers of milk" under this section.

Originally Posted by iamfreeru2

YHWH never entended for His creation to be tampered with.

There you go again, telling me what YHWH does and does not "intend".

I don't think you understand that "intentions" ARE NOT a part of his character.

*NOTHING* happens outside his explicit will. Please get this aspect of basic Christian orthodoxy down. Here's a fantastic study of God's attributes: http://www.pbministries.org/books/pi...attributes.htm

Furthermore, if God somewhere commands us not to "tamper" with his creation, please show me where in his revealed word it is stated. Furthermore, you had implied that God didn't intend *anyone* to drink animal milk, not just babies - you revised statement limits it just to babies as if that's what you meant all along. I never said babies should drink cow milk, the same way I don't think they should drink coffee or pina colata's.

Could it be that God is actually *gasp* blessing us with modern science?? What's the life span of the average male today? 80? What was it 200 years ago? mis 60's? How about 1000 years ago - most men died before their 60th birthday.

The simple fact is that Christ's kingdom is *advancing* in this world and we are reaping the benefits of it, through modern medicine. Christ's kingdom marches on - don't get "left behind" ;-)

[iamfreeru2]

Please see my response here