Land Patents and Property Tax Abatement - Urban Myth or for Real?

[rottweiler]

You are the one that doesn't want to pay, who cares what anyone else says? Why does he have to prove anything to you? Isn't it your responsibility to prove or disprove something?

Originally Posted by andrewmitch

Erik Madsen, while I like what he talks about in theory, has not been able to prove anything. And there is no way to directly contact him. So I am suspect of what's claimed on team law.

[andrewmitch]

I don't necessarily disagree w/ you. It's just that I would never had even heard of Land Patents had it not had been for Eric Madsen. His audio tape would led me to believe his method is proven but he won't provide any real evidence his method works. It would be nice to see some evidence - I'd be willing to pay decent $ to use a proven method.

[rottweiler]

Court cases are not proof?

I just spent 2 hours at the central library today plus 3 more at the county law library and another 2 on the state historical society website. Why can't you do the same if you want proof? Why can't you go to your county law library or state library and read case after case on LP's and prove it or disprove it.

Originally Posted by andrewmitch

I don't necessarily disagree w/ you. It's just that I would never had even heard of Land Patents had it not had been for Eric Madsen. His audio tape would led me to believe his method is proven but he won't provide any real evidence his method works. It would be nice to see some evidence - I'd be willing to pay decent $ to use a proven method.

[andrewmitch]

I have read case law and there have been some cases where the LP has won in court. But there are other issues - first, how do you really get the LP and 2, how do you really defend it in court?

[rottweiler]

If there is a mortgage forget it until it is settled. If not start by doing a abstract and make sure there is a clear chain of title all the way back to the patent.

As far as defending it you hardly need a lot of effort. I heard of one guy who filed a ejectment action and put down "Land Patent, get off my land" and he won. Apparently he had lost his land to property taxes and then turned around and brought the patent forward and ejected the new "owner "who thought he was buying a house but all he actually had was a tax lien. Land Patents defeat tax liens.

You make a sandwich. I believe it consists of 4 docs. A cover sheet, certified copy from the BLM of the patent, the deed, and something else, I forget.

Originally Posted by andrewmitch

I have read case law and there have been some cases where the LP has won in court. But there are other issues - first, how do you really get the LP and 2, how do you really defend it in court?

[andrewmitch]

Well, if I can be 100% convinced the LP would end prop taxes I would try and secure private financing; even if it would be at a higher rate.

To me, it sounds a little risky to allow someone to buy the house (even a tax lien) and then have to defend your ownership via the LP. To do this would mean having all your ducks in a row including a Friendly Lien to at least protect your equity should you lose.

But you are right - the place to start is completing my abstract. I have gone back a dozen owners but it only brings me to 1950.

[rottweiler]

What I was referring to is a man who lost his free and clear home to taxes was able to get it back. I don't remember if he had to pay off the tax lien first.

I didn't mean you should lose your mortgaged home for taxes on purpose so you could get it back minus a mortgage and taxes but that is very ingenius of you. As a matter of fact if it worked it would serve those scumbags right. That is why you want to do a abstract yourself before you buy even if you have to buy title insurance to get a mortgage.

That bring up a business idea. I might be able to search the titles here locally for people who lost real estate for taxes and contact them or their heirs and get their property back to them for a fee.

Originally Posted by andrewmitch

To me, it sounds a little risky to allow someone to buy the house (even a tax lien) and then have to defend your ownership via the LP. To do this would mean having all your ducks in a row including a Friendly Lien to at least protect your equity should you lose.

But you are right - the place to start is completing my abstract. I have gone back a dozen owners but it only brings me to 1950.

[andrewmitch]

I didn't mean default on the mortgage.

I meant default on taxes but put a Friendly Lien on your house for the Equity (you can only go as high as the Equity) just in case you lose the tax lien battle. The point is the risk you have in this battle (with the Friendly Lien) is the downside would be as though you sold your house (because you are forced out but you get to take your equity w/ you). The upside is you get to stay and are off the tax payroll.

The trick is to have all your ducks in a row prior to execution. In fact, if one were thinking about selling their house ANYWAYS this may be a good time to try and execute the plan, right? And if you win and still want to sell your house how much more could you get for it if the new owner didn't have to pay property taxes? HELLO!?! That's a win-win-tie scenario that you would have to play! (ie you can not lose)

[rottweiler]

Friendly lien would get paid last plus I forgot the bank would just pay the tax so scratch that idea. Hardly anyone can get ahead in their system but them.

[andrewmitch]

Yes, the friendly lien is 2nd in line. But it will protect your equity.

For example, your house is worth 500K. You own 300K. You friendly lien 200K.

You lose the house to a tax lien. The town would have to sell the house for 500K so they can pay everyone back.

If you don't have the Friendly Lien the town coud sell the house for 300K, pay back the bank, and the you are SOL.

Right?