Bank loses to "Deadbeat" homeowner

[theghost]

Originally Posted by netwrkranger

Most interesting ..... note the amount of "spin" contained within the article. Seems the "problem" is growing for banks and the court system .

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...=patrick.n et

I must say, these recent decisions, as in the Duetsche bank cases, have me wondering what is really going on. The reason I say this is because there is "case law" where the "judge"s have decided (and then quote each other back and forth) that a copy of the note is sufficient to establish that a contract exists. Of course this flies in the face of UCC article 3 on negotiable instruments, (and mounds of other "case law" to the contrary) but hey, breaking their own rules and regs has become custom and tradition in these "courts". I wonder if this does in fact represent a policy change, or just a few instances of "judges' covering their own a$$es...? Either way, I do think that people should ride this wave, and try to develop a cookie cutter approach/petition for using the same facts that were used in the Deutsche bank cases. In a foreclosure situation, you need not look any further than the issue of standing, to do so only muddies the waters, and opens the door for the other side to file "failure to state a claim" motions, when we are the plaintiffs. In other words, your arguments/statements would be incorrect and moot. This is also the case in most foreclosure cases where the homeowner/plaintiff is unknowingly fighting a "servicer", not realizing the nature and character of a servicer, as compared to the "lender". Your arguments are moot right out of the gate, but don't expect the "court" to point this out to you.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by amenmesse

I appreciate your posts DM, always knowledgeable reading. Going thru your one link
http://www.ohnd.uscourts.gov/Clerk_s...forclosure.pdf

I came across this footnote 3 at the bottom.



At the fed level I can see FDR doing this and restructuring the fed gov to be the interest collector while we the people at the state level still hold title but pay for the upkeep. But I'm having difficulty comprehending the indiviual relationship with a forecloser. If a successor forcloses wouldn't it make more sense to move out or is it perhaps just cheaper to stay and pay interest and this leads the people into peonage. Any more eloquent opinions on my concepts here? I'm thinking this is what Judge Wynkoop meant when he said "It will be through forms of law you will be lead into slavery." 4 July 1776. Thanks in advance.

That is a good point. I am trying to understand it. "...the people at the state level..." I am presuming to mean taxpayers. Cutting weeds and replacing a roof etc. to prevent an empty home from decaying to the point where they have to bulldoze it - yet another taxpayer expense.

I think if you look at it that way it will make more sense. Mostly as I understand it, the bank will have the sheriff kick the people out - whether anybody comes in to live, rent or buy the house or not.

A spectacular treatise on banking practices was written about 1840 by George Lippard New York - The Upper Ten and the Lower Million.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[moishanb]

It's upper ten and lower million is linked here:

http://www.openlibrary.org/details/n...pert00lippiala

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by moishanb

It's upper ten and lower million is linked here:

http://www.openlibrary.org/details/n...pert00lippiala

Check out Page 162 - I have written about the Court of Ten Millions.


Cool link Moishanb! Do they also have Washington and His Generals?

[moishanb]

Washington and His Generals link:

Volume 1: http://www.openlibrary.org/details/w...nhisgen01head2

Volume 2: http://www.openlibrary.org/details/w...nhisgen02head2

[David Merrill]

Interesting excursion Moishanb;


I was perusing for a while and became confused as this is not the author I had in mind. But I learned a lot looking for some of my favorite passages.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[moishanb]

My apologies on the correct title, but wrong author. Here is the correct link to George Lippard's Washington and his Generals: The Legends of the American Revolution

http://www.openlibrary.org/details/l...revo00lipprich

[amenmesse]

Originally Posted by David Merrill

That is a good point. I am trying to understand it. "...the people at the state level..." I am presuming to mean taxpayers. Cutting weeds and replacing a roof etc. to prevent an empty home from decaying to the point where they have to bulldoze it - yet another taxpayer expense.

I think if you look at it that way it will make more sense. Mostly as I understand it, the bank will have the sheriff kick the people out - whether anybody comes in to live, rent or buy the house or not.

A spectacular treatise on banking practices was written about 1840 by George Lippard New York - The Upper Ten and the Lower Million.


Regards,

David Merrill.

You understand it as I meant it. We have a class of people paying interest only mortgages that I equate with peonage. Its like paying rental for an apartment but paying the taxes and doing maintenance. If the successors foreclose and can't sell the property because we have a glut of homes on the market it may be they ask the homeowner to stay, pay a small rental/interest fee, plus the taxes plus maintenance of the property, taking us back towards peonage. If the bank can resell the house because its more profitable then the sheriff will evict. I participated in an eviction once.

As to Lippard I had to do some searching but found the book thank you. Interestingly the author is buried not far from me. In a neighborhood where my parents would on occasion take us to visit their friends. Small world. But my reading on Lippard says his work was fiction and taken as fact. Any truth to this claim?

And thanks Moishanb, nice links.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by amenmesse

But my reading on Lippard says his work was fiction and taken as fact. Any truth to this claim?

And thanks Moishanb, nice links.

Indeed thank you Moishanb;


True, Lippard is fiction.

Interestingly, he is nearly revered among the Rosicrucians, the true Rosicrucians (not Aliester Crowley's AMORC) who believe in cyclic revivals of Rosicrucianism.

What George Lippard did was pioneer writing in the style of Patriotic Romance. There is a fictional account of George Washington being initiated into the Rosicrucian Order fairly early in the book - the Chapter about the Wissihican (sp?) where it allegedly took place. And as far as I can tell the Rosicrucians accept Lippard's fictional account as gospel truth.

It is quite true that George Washington was enamored with Masonry:

http://www.ecclesia.org/forum/images...Washington.jpg

And I think that is really what we can accredit to Lippard - that spirit of romance where we are tempted to rewrite history as our romantic sense of fighting in freezing mud for our liberty will allow us to. Or against unsympathetic bankers who will close down at the first hint of a run, and be back in business with the stolen funds next month...





Regards,

David Merrill.

[courttroubles]

I joined the group probably back in Nov 07. And have only posted a couple of times. But I do appreciate the help DM attempted to provide me. But I still haven't acted with a R4C mainly because I've been confused with learning so much.


So in a nutshell I'm like the victim they talk about Mr. Lents in this story this thread was originally started with. I attempted to refinance my home.

Unfortunately for me I didn't realize how bad I was being lied to on the refinance of my home. Yes I borrowed money and realize someone should pay for their expenses to live somewhere.



However after coming here I realize a whole lot more. I think the main reason why I at this point I've never followed thru with a R4C is because of my own ignorance in proceeding in such a case.

While I do have a banking background I'm not an attorney. But I've ended up reading enough cases to know I was screwed royally not only by my originating mortgage company but now by my own bankruptcy atty, and trustee.

As by missing three pymts on my 2nd mortgage a total of $801 and trying to do the right thing all I could get out of servicer was the run around until right before they attempted to foreclose in June 06.

They attempted to file for foreclosure with one of their sucessor trustee things. No assignment was ever recorded in my case prior to this filing.

What has been found out after all of this in bankruptcy court is that they have no clue who actually owns my debt. I found out my atty could of done things to help us in bankruptcy court.

While he got them to prove they don't know who owns and got atty dismissed with prejudice he dropped the ball after this. The dismissal with prejudice also had an order that they receive no pymts on note. Regular monthly installments or trustee arreage pymts.Has tried telling me my case has no merit. He also sent a letter to the trustee acknowledging that we thought they filed a false proof of claim in court. As they knew when the foreclosure sale was stopped initially they didn't know who owned my debt. So why ever come to court knowing you don't have docs?

However, I've also found a case here in Mo almost identical to mine where someone's atty did follow thru with a complaint/adversary in bankruptcy court. In actuality by an attorney with National Association Consumer Advocacy here in STL MO. Who told me this and that about the cost and how lucky I'd be if 3 out of 10,000 bankruptcy attys here in St. Louis actually knew what their doing inside bankruptcy court.

So because of an inept atty or illegal methods of attys to lie and deceive my bankruptcy was dismissed in Jan 08. I did attempt to start rectifying things with court again in Dec prior to dismissal but my attys attitude is no money no help. While he lied to us from the moment he was hired. So now because they didn't handle properly in bankruptcy court I've been told to do something I need to file it in state court.

However, I know they've attempted to create diversity jurdisction. The case I'm referencing that's been handled properly here in Mo is in Bankrutpcy case name Rhonda Lewellan. If you have a pacer acct you can find things you'd never imagine about the right USC code violations.

But while I can identify these I've been unable to find an attorney to help me. Not surprised anymore. However I'm desperate to put this crap to bed.

So how would you move forward? As since all of this happened I've found I believe errors in the origination that from the case I read noted above actually allows 6 yrs for recission instead of the 3 usually told to us?

I'm apprehensive in filing anything to put fire on me. I've already been thru enough. The way my 1st is written it'll cost me $60,000 extra on top of all their other bull**** just by giving the broker the ysp on the back since he made origination fees as well.

But with everything that's happened I need to address them now. The 1st wants to do a modification. However, their not giving us credit for the pymts we made in bankruptcy. Not sure why yet. The 2nd is continually calling wanting money although we've proven they don't know who owns our debt. So I just hangup on them or curse them. I'm not usually this way but so POed by how to fix this I'm beyond disbelief. Especially since the whole thing that put me into this mess is that the employer I worked 4 for over 2 1/2 yrs never had it in their contract to sell mortgage notes as I was told when I accepted my position with them.

Lie, Lie is what they do. **** I even offered them clients to buy their crap from them and still couldn't make money to pay them. The main reason on one transaction is because said lender seller still wanted to make money on something they sold. Some business transactions allow for such things like gold mines or maybe an ongoing purchasing arrangement or commercial financing. But seriously to want to make money on some deficiency balance notes I'm flabbergasted.

The economy today is because of all of these entities lying to all of the hardworking people who end up supporting their lavish lifestyles. What they forget though is every person puts their pants on the same way rich or poor. And the judges are covering for all their BS except for the one's now requiring PRESENTMENT OF NOTE vs. so called accepted practice of copy.

So will a R4C make this happen? Will it stop them in their tracks? Does the originator get one along with now lender and servicer? How do I make sure this atty I hired is stopped from giving such poor representation again? Also after all his lies and crap I found out he works for a chp 7 trustee. Or the bankruptcy trustee who chose to do nothing about their false presentment even if the $500k penalty they should of endured goes to the court?

I feel any type of appeal would fall mute on them at this point. But I do want justice! If anyone has great words of encouragement please assist!

Thanks,

Kathy