Land Patent Cites

[citizensoldier]

Originally Posted by wisper

The land patent, is if I understand the issue, is just clear title to the land, granted in patent to the original owner, by the land office and approved by the president. If I update the patent and bring the patent forward as an heir or assign, by abstract completion and demonstrated acceptance I have the the dirt and the air above it.

A land patent cannot be summed up as being simply clear title - it is absolute title. The best explanation I have seen given about land patents is here: http://teamlawproductions.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3

How does one get to the point of including other property (like a home) under the protection of the patent.

Simple, the property must be unencumbered and owned by the land patent assignee.

It would seem logical to me with a home sitting on the patented land, that the patentee would be hard pressed to get any 1st or 2nd mortgage, (on the home) because the bank would be in second or third position on it's lien , if they were to make the loan.

Incorrect, a land patent doesn't inhibit your ability to contract nor does it void any obligation resulting from a contract over appertunances on patented land. As stated in the above case, the courts repeatedly affirm this truth. If one were to enter into a contract with the intent on using the basis of a land patent to break it, they would be guilty of fraud.

I may be wrong, and if so, tell me, but I have been of the impression that all the patent was going to do for me was protect against eminant domain, keep the utlity companies and city/county employees off the property and free me from permits and possibly property taxes.

Property taxes do not have anything to do with a land patent; however, I am confused on how you seem disappointed that a land patent "only protects against eminant domain" and any other external regulation or control over ones property. Do you not see how such ownership provides the foundations of sovereignty and rights?

I have put together the patent paperwork, and I own outright the home sitting on it, but so far, here is what I've found: 1) If I don't follow the the building codes and get the proof( through the permit process) then certain significant items are denied me.

What would these items be?

2) The utility ( water) won't provide the water mains without the easements established by the Planning & zoning dept

Nothing stops you with contracting with P&Z should you want to benefit from their offers

3) P&Z demands a site plan to include all utility locations to establish the easements, not just on my patented land, but for the properties on the four sides of my property.

These are simply terms to their contractual offer for the benefit of using their utilities.

4) when I entertained bypassing an approval of a county site plan on my property, the county let me know that I would be shooting myself in the foot, without all the necessary approval, if I ever had to sell, the new owner would have to update and pay for what I didn't do, or the title insurance would be stopped

Why would you need title insurance? You have proof of the chain of ownership from the original land grant to you - what else could possibly serve as proof to a buyer that you truly own the land? Why would a new owner be subject to regulation and control after you sold it to them?

5)the power company would not provide power to the home without a county inspection on the site, otherwise they would be liable to additional liability for which their lawyers won't accept.

All I see are excuses about not being able to enjoy the benefits of the statutory system created to undermine our sovereignty. You cannot expect to be sovereign while still wanting to enjoy the "benefits" created by the very system designed to undermine your sovereignty. You can provide power, water, sewage, etc.., on your land without relying on others to do it for you.

In conclusion, I have gone through the expenses and time it took to get the patent sandwich together, I paid cash for the land and for a new manufactured home, there are no banks involved, it looks like the county would be willing to fight to keep the property on the tax roles as they have been for almost a hundred years, so here I am wondering why I got involved, and thinking that even the tax role thing would be significant only in a large metro area. Am I missing something?

You seem to want something for nothing. Either live sovereign or make yourself subject to Corp US and enjoy its benefits. No one said that embracing freedom didn't have its hardships.

[wisper]

I wrote a long response to your lecture to me, and I accidentally hit the back button and the whole thing disappeared Typing with 2 fingers takes me forever, so I won't spend the time and effort to reconstruct it. I will say however that the lecture below assumes an awful lot knowledge about me, you have no way of knowing. You were obviously thinking you knew where I was coming from, and I'd suggest you ask and discuss first before talking down to another!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.


All I see are excuses about not being able to enjoy the benefits of the statutory system created to undermine our sovereignty. You cannot expect to be sovereign while still wanting to enjoy the "benefits" created by the very system designed to undermine your sovereignty. You can provide power, water, sewage, etc.., on your land without relying on others to do it for you.
You seem to want something for nothing. Either live sovereign or make yourself subject to Corp US and enjoy its benefits. No one said that embracing freedom didn't have its hardships.[/quote]

[citizensoldier]

I assumed nothing about you - only addressed what you posted for all to see. Your post seems to be one big complaint about the land patent not being the silver bullet in dealing with Corp US, which I responded in that light. You undertook an action that you did not research and understand before doing it, yet you are offended when someone points this out. I am not judging you nor am I personally attacking you; however, I will not beat around the bush nor be "touchy feely" when someone leaps before they look. Of course, I do not wish to impede your discussion on the subject, so I will refrain from posting further on it.

[wisper]

Originally Posted by citizensoldier

I assumed nothing about you - only addressed what you posted for all to see. Your post seems to be one big complaint about the land patent not being the silver bullet in dealing with Corp US, which I responded in that light. You undertook an action that you did not research and understand before doing it, yet you are offended when someone points this out. I am not judging you nor am I personally attacking you; however, I will not beat around the bush nor be "touchy feely" when someone leaps before they look. Of course, I do not wish to impede your discussion on the subject, so I will refrain from posting further on it.

I have taken a whole month to reply to Citizensoldier, and have to (finally) admit that I see his point! I am indeed guilty of not having done the due diligence on the land patent, its processes and purposes. The real problem with me, I think, is that I can't seem to grasp the power as described of sovereignty. So it is my intention to educate myself, and become the soveran I have the right to be! As far as asking question or seeking guidance I will have to find a different forum thread, as this is not what SJ asked for in this thread. CS, I humbly apologize and am open to all inputs, thank you.

[teneagles]

I have spent the last few months going over several dozen Declarations of Patents that have been filed, looking at all the various citations in them to put together my war chest of citations.

Most of them quote citations readily found in the messages from this forum, and the information in other Suijuris areas

However, more than 90% of them (including the file in the downloads area here), also contain a version of the following citation:

"The existing system of land transfer is a long and tedious process involving the observance of many formalities and technicalities, a failure to observe any one of which may defeat title, even where these have been traced to its source, the purchaser must, but at his peril, there always being, in spite of the utmost care and expenditure, the possibility that his title may turn out bad:" Yealde, Torrens System 209.

The spelling of the evident author ranges from Yealde, to Yeakel, to Yeakell, with many misspelling Torrens as Torrence. Some have the 209 as a page number using abbriviations ranging from p, to pg, to pp. They all seem to need it, for the Torrens system of Land Registration did have its hayday for a while in the US, though most states have now abandoned it as too hard on their court dockets and resources, and it is still very much alive in England, Austrailia and Canada, but I cannot for the life of me find a single reference to a book called "Torrens System" with a page number of 1 let alone 209, nor a "Torrens System 209", nor any book about Torrens with the cited derivitives of the authors.

Any one else know what they are in reality trying to cite?