Land Patent Questions Left Unanswered

[idknow]

Originally Posted by Leiahi

There is nothing "enabling" of the Acts of Congress
regarding Hawai'i except the facts and the insistence of the US to avoid the
international legal matters by perpetuating the grandest fraud yet. Check you
out! As TREATY is the Law of the Land, then what Act of Congress or law might
you/they (the US) be referring to? Let's not go there, I think mystic one hit
you on the head with this one. I AM of Hawai'i.

http://www.hawaiiankingdom.org/treaties.shtml How does the US
backpaddle on two previous Treaties? On these, they did agree to Navigation and
Commerce, but conveniently forget the Friendship clause.....hhmmm, to steal the
Kingdom perhaps? I fail to see where Congress gets it's power to over rule that
of a Treaty.

You might also find this verbiage interesting: 1883 The Government of the
Republic of the United States of America and the Government of His Majesty the
King of Hawaii,....

Leiahi, excuse me please, I seem to have pushed one of your buttons; is there an "off"
switch?

It appears from your post that I erred in my post that you're responding to.

All law and treaties must be congruent together and anything tht is repugnant
to the Constitution must by necessity be void ab initio. I saw this as preface
to say the following:

Treaties appply to the parties involved and the sovereigns are not parties to
treaties between countries, kingdoms and "states".

If Congress forgot or left out a provision in their act that enabled the treaty
between the UNITED STATES and the King of Hawai'i, then there must be a reason
for it; governments are instituted among men to committ commerce and not to
interfere with non-commercial beings (real or imagined)

being tht you're a native of Hawai'i, have you figered out why things are as
they are tween your kingdom and the US?

thanks for the post.

[mystic one]

ok, jerry thanks for clarifying... i understand what your saying, its just hard to use the exact terminlogy when your first learning about this stuff.... ok, so land patent does not keep you from paying taxes? it is only when the land patent becomes "allodial title" are you free from the tax rolls? when does the patent actually become allodial title to be more precise?

[Leiahi]

Originally Posted by idknow

Leiahi, excuse me please, I seem to have pushed one of your buttons; is there an "off"
switch?

It appears from your post that I erred in my post that you're responding to.

All law and treaties must be congruent together and anything tht is repugnant
to the Constitution must by necessity be void ab initio. I saw this as preface
to say the following:

Treaties appply to the parties involved and the sovereigns are not parties to
treaties between countries, kingdoms and "states".

If Congress forgot or left out a provision in their act that enabled the treaty
between the UNITED STATES and the King of Hawai'i, then there must be a reason
for it; governments are instituted among men to committ commerce and not to
interfere with non-commercial beings (real or imagined)

being tht you're a native of Hawai'i, have you figered out why things are as
they are tween your kingdom and the US?

thanks for the post.

I just love the fact that it wasn't a "one liner" and quite verbose. I must be feeling good, because this time, I really think you're worth the reply......silly me! At least I'm not confusing you with Idoknow...!

Firstly I say: Yes, I do have that "off" button, which you can't seem to find for some reason. My apologies. Perhaps it's your blind probing....

Secondly, your comment: anything tht is repugnant to the Constitution must by necessity be void ab initio Can you make that fly?! If you can, I'll really be interested in what you have to say.
..duh... What you say does not work with this illusory world that I happen to live in, and it's the same world that you do, too. btw, WHAT LAW of Necessity are you speaking of? Not the one in the shower!!! Step outside and let's talk about that.....let's see you make it "fly"! I'm not fooled to try. Theory is grand, make it stick and I'll listen to you with both ears.

Thirdly, Congress was not a part of the Constitution of Hawai'i 1840 nor the Treaty(ies) between Hawaii and the US, (four of them) (and only ratified by them). They are signed and agreed to by the Plenepotentiaries of the "president" and the "king", and they involved the "people". Of which I am One. As such, idknow, I still hold as much power as the King himself. Therefore, I say to you, I AM sovereign (upon the/this land). I am my own King. ...Here, I'll top that: according to the US, I AM Foreign to them... like Hawaii, Alaska, Utah, and all land holdings in Commonwealth "properties" across the continental US... hhhmmmm.....I wonder "why"....? Look at it this way, like the the King of England in releasing "his" subjects to establish the Republic of the united States of America, it also happens to be what the King of Hawaii did with "his" subjects! I AM sovereign on the land mainly because I have and I maintain my birthrights, do you? Sovereign/ty is not some thing that "some one" holds or is, but it is obtained through the birthrights that come via and of the Land. YOU are not sovereign, the land IS. Sovereignty is another button you may not want to push. You truly want the law on all that I "claim", then PM me. You may not like what you get but it will be only Truth. (better still, Fact)

Lastly, please, can you sound any more ignorant that your statement?: "being tht you're a native of Hawai'i, have you figered out why things are as they are tween your kingdom and the US?" Yes, I have (though it's no fault of mine or yours, right?). Obviously, we had different curricullum's in "school" too. Let me ask you this: Have you figured it out? Rather, direct, do you even know why you are here on SJ? Isn't it to find out how and why things are the way they are in your own little world? Unfortunately, you sound like you're in a really small box. (you know, that religious box that you think you own?) It's moot, but just how would you go about changing the hands of time? Seeing any resemblence of compassion in the "tween" you say of Hawaii and the US???"!!!??? Mind you it's NOT and was never the "people", but duly to the ONE's in power holds. Again, the unfortunate reality, is the pitting of one against the same..... Go look up the facts of the matters then ask me that question again....

You're welcome (for the post). Come wear my shoes and know who you are, so we can tango.........

...And, this is what would bring us back to the subject of land patents and grants of a king or a president.... ....so what do you know of land patents, idknow? except a surmising?

[mystic one]

Oh leh, can the two of you just go back to the sandbox and play nice. i would like to you guys build a really nice sandcastle of the "Land "


Getting back to the point Jerry,
When does a patent officially become "Allodial title"?
When doesn the conversion from patent actually take place, can you define the procress from patent to allodial for me?

After 60 days does your patent become allodial?

[Leiahi]

Originally Posted by mystic one

Oh leh, can the two of you just go back to the sandbox and play nice. i would like to you guys build a really nice sandcastle of the "Land "


Getting back to the point Jerry,
When does a patent officially become "Allodial title"?
When doesn the conversion from patent actually take place, can you define the procress from patent to allodial for me?

After 60 days does your patent become allodial?

Yes, I apologize mystic one, I promise to play nicely. btw, I got lot's of sand to play with....and hot lava too!
I will produce the fruits of my efforts to contribute, in detail. Give me a couple days...just remember, Hawaii is outside of that sand box and the general procedures will be at variance. I will consult my authorities....

[kmcarr]

Originally Posted by jerrypitts

If you are volunteering as a 14th amendment citizen of the US in order to receive a land patent, then the land patent you request will be filed under the all caps name per their standard operating procedures. The old original land patents were issued under the upper/lower case names of the recipient.

All lands patents on the BLM website are in ALL CAPS NAMES. It is only when you pull up the image of the original document that you see upper and lower case names. Another interesting thing I see when I search the site is the massive holdings or patents the USA has out west. I only stared investigating the BLM website two days ago but I see many interesting things. It is another interesting tidbit that none of the recent patents [1951-2000] have images associated with them. Maybe they havent been scanned in yet.The last patent I found in Missouri was for 1951 and it was a correction made on a patent filled in 1825.

IMHO if you own the land you own it. Why do I need a patent, deed, title any thing to prove it. If I have paid off a mortgage the bank has no interest or claim. Our claim to land or real estate or whatever is only as good as how hard we can push back when someone else asserts a claim to it. So push with the pen or push with the sword, but one must defend ones self interest. The Kingdom of Callaway was the only County in the States United that "successfully" sceeded from the union in the Civil War. We have a treaty signed by a Union General that stated the Union would not invade the Kingdom of Callaway. Now 4 days after signing the treaty the kingdom was invaded and went the way of the rest of the southern states. So WTF is a piece of paper to Liars, Cheats, and Evil doers. I for one dont feel the need to prove JACK to any Court. Mine is a lonely world.

Originally Posted by mystic one

ok, jerry thanks for clarifying... i understand what your saying, its just hard to use the exact terminlogy when your first learning about this stuff.... ok, so land patent does not keep you from paying taxes? it is only when the land patent becomes "allodial title" are you free from the tax rolls? when does the patent actually become allodial title to be more precise?

Alodial Title would be dependent upon the nature of the Original Land Patent. As indicated before, if the original land patent designated that the water rights were reserved for the government, then you could never attain alodial title to that land.

Suppose that you attempt to update a patent according to the existing laws of today. The end result would be a land patent that is automatically restricted with regard to the mineral rights and you again would not have alodial title to the property.

Now suppose you are an heir to a property issued under the homestead act. The homestead act, to my understanding, did not make reservations for the government. At least I have not found one yet within the BlM that indicated a reservation of rights. Anyway, dealing with that type of patent, and you being an heir to the property, you would not want to "bring it up in your name", because as such, the patent would have to be modified and would again fall under the current laws, wherein you would forfeit the mineral rights. However, if you simply make the record within BLM that you are the lawful heir to the property and that you are declaring that you are heir executive or some other such term, the patent is not changed and official record is made that the land is now under your control and custody.

Remember, all people within the chain of warranty deed holders on a homestead act patent, were given lawful opportunity to have a patent updated in their names. If they did not do so, then the patent remains intact and unamended... belonging to the original patentee.

Jerry.

[mystic one]

ok, so to clarify things. if you try to get a patent in your name under new laws. you will still be subject to property taxes, since the laws changed and you dont have the mineral rights.. the only way to get true title is before the laws changed and you can find the original patent holder so he can assign it to you???. so the key is finding a property that doesnt have existing laws on it and trying to contact the original patent holder if you can some how find him in the blm records?

Basically, trying to patent property that has the new laws is just a huge waste of time, because your not going to achieve your objective of allodial. no control of the minerals= taxes?

Originally Posted by mystic one

ok, so to clarify things. if you try to get a patent in your name under new laws. you will still be subject to property taxes, since the laws changed and you dont have the mineral rights.. the only way to get true title is before the laws changed and you can find the original patent holder so he can assign it to you???. so the key is finding a property that doesnt have existing laws on it and trying to contact the original patent holder if you can some how find him in the blm records?

Basically, trying to patent property that has the new laws is just a huge waste of time, because your not going to achieve your objective of allodial. no control of the minerals= taxes?

That is about the size of it. Let me explain more.. it gets more interesting.

Finding an heir to an original patent is still of non value, as the assignment will commercialize the property and you would still be paying taxes. The better thing to do, is research the genealogy of your family and determine is a patent was issued to one of your grands. If yes, then proceed from there. If not, then incorporate your strawman and form some sort of energy resource exploration company.

In the same county of Holmes, in Florida, I ran across some court records where an energy company from Texas had made a claim on some land. Turns out to be in excess of 1,000 acres. Ironically, most of that land is residential. so I looked further, the company filed the claim under the NEW energy laws, wherein these research companies have the statutory right to claim the mineral rights to otherwise private property, and there is nothing you as that private owner can do about it. Looking further into the company itself, I found that the mother company for the office in Texas is located in France. Give me a break...some more of that giving away of American soil/resources... or is it a matter of some of the chips being called in on the national debt?

The long and short of it right now, is that if you are a mortgagee, then you are screwed as far as being able to get an alodial title to land.

Jerry

One other suggestion Mystic... out west, there are still approximately 256 million acres that are still in the public domain, being held in trust by the government.

Now whether or not this has ever been attempted or not, or what the benefit or consequences of such an attempt will result in is also unknown.

I am suggesting that a man/woman file a commonlaw claim on particular parcels of land that is within that area that is being held in trust. If you file the necessary and appropriate paperwork (what it would consist of I don't know) and if no-one objected to your claim, then it would be yours, according to the claim. I sort of think, however, that you will encounter much friction with the powers that be... after all, it is they that have stolen from us and put everything up as colatteral for their mismanagement.

Jerry.