Land Patent Questions Left Unanswered

[mystic one]

ok. so there is about 256 million acres out west that are still public (government trust).. however with the new laws of the 90s private corporations have bought "privitaziton" alot of the lands. so now in the 90s /2000 when people try to patent land it is pointless, because 1) they have changed the laws from the original constitution and 2) they have converted most of the public lands into private (corporations bought them) then patented them?

So unless you can find one of these "older lands" that are still in the public trust" your screwed because they have screwed us in a 2 fold way?

[mystic one]

furthermore, what if you dont have any relatives that own land.? can you still theoretically buy land that is in the public trust and patent and gain allodial?

You said if the hier assigns it, he commercializes it, therefore taking it out of allodial? but i thought the whole point of assigning it was so that you would have true allodial just like he did, so he assigns it.. ??? you cant put it in your name, if your not one of his heirs. there has to be a way around this. because not everyone has relatives that have land from the 1800 or 1900s.

Please study your responses more thorougly. because your responses, make me just have more questions.

Originally Posted by mystic one

furthermore, what if you dont have any relatives that own land.? can you still theoretically buy land that is in the public trust and patent and gain allodial?

If you don't have relatives; have a warranty deed; and the mortgage is completely satisfied; no past taxes due; you can apply for a patent under the current law, and no alodial title will be issued. Bottom line... you cannot get an alodial title in YOUR NAME under the current laws.

Originally Posted by mystic one

You said if the hier assigns it, he commercializes it, therefore taking it out of allodial? but i thought the whole point of assigning it was so that you would have true allodial just like he did, so he assigns it.. ???

To 'assign' simply means and gives reference to the act of selling the property or donating the property or giving it away. When property is assigned, a public record has to be made of that transaction, in order to protect the rights of the assignee, else an un-scrupulous assignor could later come back and reclaim the property along with any and all improvements made upon the property via the assignee. Bear in mind, the assignee that does not exercise his/her entitlement to get a patent, is taking a risk "buyer beware" because that patent is still out there to be claimed by the rightful man or woman.

Originally Posted by mystic one

you cant put it in your name, if your not one of his heirs. there has to be a way around this. because not everyone has relatives that have land from the 1800 or 1900s.

See above,, my opening responsive paragraph.

Originally Posted by mystic one

Please study your responses more thorougly. because your responses, make me just have more questions.

My responses are being answered in context to your questions. If those responses generate more questions, it is simply because you keep rephrasing the same questions with different scenarios. Again... Bottom line is you cannot get an alodial title in your name under the current set of laws.

Jerry

To emphasize my point, I reference the USC

TITLE 43 > CHAPTER 6 > § 142

§ 142. Rights of occupants or claimants of oil- or gas-bearing lands; exceptions to withdrawals

This section and section 141 [1] of this title shall not be construed as a recognition, abridgment, or enlargement of any asserted rights or claims initiated upon any oil- or gas-bearing lands after any withdrawal of such lands made prior to June 25, 1910: And provided further, That there shall be excepted from the force and effect of any withdrawal made under the provisions of this section and section 141 [1] of this title all lands which are, on the date of such withdrawal, embraced in any lawful homestead or desert-land entry theretofore made, or upon which any valid settlement has been made and is at said date being maintained and perfected pursuant to law; but the terms of this proviso shall not continue to apply to any particular tract of land unless the entryman or settler shall continue to comply with the law under which the entry or settlement was made.


TITLE 43 > CHAPTER 6 > § 146

§ 146. Patents to purchasers of lands withdrawn


Upon payment of the purchase price the Secretary of the Interior is authorized by appropriate patent to convey all the right, title, and interest in and to said lands to the purchaser at said sale, subject, however, to such reservations, limitations, or conditions as said Secretary may deem proper: Provided, That not over one hundred and sixty acres shall be sold to any one person: Provided further, That any patent issued hereunder shall contain a reservation to the United States of all oil, gas, coal, and other mineral.

TITLE 43 > CHAPTER 6 > § 151

§ 151. Opening of lands restored to entry after withdrawals

When public lands are excluded from national forests or released from withdrawals the President may, whenever in his judgment it is proper or necessary, provide for the opening of the lands by settlement in advance of entry, by drawing, or by such other method as he may deem advisable in the interest of equal opportunity and good administration, and in doing so may provide that lands so opened shall be subject only to homestead entry by actual settlers only or to entry under the desert-land laws for a period not exceeding ninety days, the unentered lands to be thereafter subject to disposition under the public-land laws applicable thereto.

[Leiahi]

Originally Posted by jerrypitts

If you don't have relatives; have a warranty deed; and the mortgage is completely satisfied; no past taxes due; you can apply for a patent under the current law, and no alodial title will be issued. Bottom line... you cannot get an alodial title in YOUR NAME under the current laws.



To 'assign' simply means and gives reference to the act of selling the property or donating the property or giving it away. When property is assigned, a public record has to be made of that transaction, in order to protect the rights of the assignee, else an un-scrupulous assignor could later come back and reclaim the property along with any and all improvements made upon the property via the assignee. Bear in mind, the assignee that does not exercise his/her entitlement to get a patent, is taking a risk "buyer beware" because that patent is still out there to be claimed by the rightful man or woman..

Jerry

...now this I can work with. It's in the context of truth. Thanks jerrypitts...

jerrypitts said: you can apply for a patent under the current law, and no alodial title will be issued. I do know and understand how allodial title "was" issued....and they only come from direct patents and grants of the President or King (the tentative (or quantative) soverneign title holder) handed down to the "heirs apparent" via genealogy. There is no way to acheive an allodial title in "real estate" today. They don't give them out anymore. Somebody needs to "pay" the holding "tax" deemed by the agency and the BLM. It would not be the allodial title "owner", but the sucker who didn't know what transpired in the transfer of "title" somewhere in between. Regarless of tranfer of "title" to the new or next person, with rights or not, some one will still have to pay, having become the way of statute. It has been the engineering of the US agency that instituted the "over layer" (as in all real estate) for someone to pay. This is how they keep us out of the loop of truth. They will seek out the sucker who had it registered in their ALL CAPS name. (Poor guy/gal) The only way around this "taxing" is to be in direct "decendancy" to the original grant or patent (by genealogy)...with that, you will have aready been extablished by prior determination and exempt. Without these points in order, we just have to work harder and under stand better, the way of the works, and keep it contrary to our demise.

This may be different in and of procedure across the continental US and it's Comonwealth properties, these facts remain resonant in the general procedures of the US and it's holdings, of which (I, in) Hawaii is one of them....

I have a challenge, directly, to those of this forum, to see where it really, and truly "lies", i.e. the "coordinates" (literally speaking) of the properties you think you may be claiming under patent or any color of title. To my knowledge, all "real estate" under the US agency, is "accorded" at 5 degrees N of it's physical actuality. I beg you to check the TMK, the tax schedule in your possession, and the actual coordinates according to true Earth coordinates, and do an examination of the findings. This, I'm aiming to prove true or otherwise, for my, mine, and everyone else' general knowledge.

My sources are forthcoming, at obvious and determinate variance, of course. Though it is virtually of no matter, we are here to learn and experience of those differences. And then again, I may know not a thread of what I am speaking here. In the likes of that possiblity, I will feign as Skeptic does.....ignore me.

[idknow]

Originally Posted by mystic one

so, without allodial title you still have to pay property
taxes. or even though you dont have allodial title and just patent, your in the
clear still?

why do they say us citizens can not patent there land.

doo you have to record patent in non caps name.


if so this just contradicts other stuff since the feds and railroad co. have
patents in there corporate name, just not citizens? Just dont record patent in
your all caps name?

patent= no property taxes, or since allodial title doesnt exist after 1996 you
can get 100$ ownership of land anymore..

What is the legal term for "buying a lot" is just buying a land deed? the
rights to it, but not title?

with regard to the sub-thread about allodial right to property and
encumberances that maybe be mentioned in treaties that make for land-patents,
if there are reservations of rights to minerals upon or below ground or to
ground growth (ie, trees) then that would not admit to taxation;

while the patent would still be issuable to one complying with the act of
Congress regarding the claim and invocation, such a claim by a party for land
would not convert the patent to something taxable.

someone wanting the patent to a plot of land would have to look at the act of
congress for any reservations.

since when are there no "allodial titles" since 1996?
is there a typo in the phrase of that sentence at "can" - shouldnt that be "cant'"?

[idknow]

Originally Posted by Leiahi

There is nothing "enabling" of the Acts of Congress
regarding Hawai'i except the facts and the insistence of the US to avoid the
international legal matters by perpetuating the grandest fraud yet. Check you
out! As TREATY is the Law of the Land, then what Act of Congress or law might
you/they (the US) be referring to? Let's not go there, I think mystic one hit
you on the head with this one. I AM of Hawai'i.

http://www.hawaiiankingdom.org/treaties.shtml How does the US
backpaddle on two previous Treaties? On these, they did agree to Navigation and
Commerce, but conveniently forget the Friendship clause.....hhmmm, to steal the
Kingdom perhaps? I fail to see where Congress gets it's power to over rule that
of a Treaty.

You might also find this verbiage interesting: 1883 The Government of the
Republic of the United States of America and the Government of His Majesty the
King of Hawaii,....

let's see if I can pose better questions.

Leiahi, what facts and insistance was the US trying to avoid in matters of
international legal matters by perpetuating the grandest fraud yet?

what back-peddling are you referring to?

which treaties were affected?

what is the usual example of a ``friendship article'' in a treaty?

how would the lack of a ``friendship article'' lead to "stealing the Kingdom"?

i look forward to your response.

[idknow]

Originally Posted by Leiahi

I just love the fact that it wasn't a "one liner" and quite verbose. I must be feeling good, because this time, I really think you're worth the reply......silly me! At least I'm not confusing you with Idoknow...!

Firstly I say: Yes, I do have that "off" button, which you can't seem to find for some reason. My apologies. Perhaps it's your blind probing....

well, I cant find my off-button locater.

Originally Posted by Leiahi

Secondly, your comment: anything tht is repugnant to the Constitution must by necessity be void ab initio Can you make that fly?! If you can, I'll really be interested in what you have to say.

the Marbury opinion would apply, there the court said that they had the authority to declare any act of Congress void for repugnancy when contrary to the Constitution.

Originally Posted by Laiahi

[...] btw, WHAT LAW of Necessity are you speaking of?

the same law of necessity that is evident in all declared emergencies.

Originally Posted by Leiahi

[...]
As such, idknow, I still hold as much power as the King himself. Therefore, I say to you, I AM sovereign (upon the/this land). I am my own King. ...Here, I'll top that: according to the US, I AM Foreign to them... like Hawaii, Alaska, Utah, and all land holdings in Commonwealth "properties" across the continental US...

[...] Look at it this way, like the the King of England in releasing "his" subjects to establish the Republic of the united States of America, it also happens to be what the King of Hawaii did with "his" subjects!

I AM sovereign on the land mainly because I have and I maintain my birthrights, do you? Sovereign/ty is not some thing that "some one" holds or is, but it is obtained through the birthrights that come via and ofthe Land.

YOU are not sovereign, the land IS.

Sovereignty is another button you may not want to push. You truly want the law on all that I "claim", then PM me. You may not like what you get but it will be only Truth. (better still, Fact)

I'm not sure but I think you believe I impuned your sovereignty. for sure, I did no such thing. As for my condition, I'm getting there with the Lord's assistance.

If all rights and sovreingty come from God what did the King give to you?

The King of England had slaves; recognising anything less than what God identifies as from him is less than Liberty of christ; it was deceit and subterfuge that kings assert some "authority" to say they are better than "the people" and, on the other hand, I know of a humble king who lives now on this planet, neither King George nor King James were humble enough; they both show and history records their pride and love of money.

I am what the word of God says I am, my condition is the same as my father's in heaven.

No creature or law of creature made me.

As for the land, as it is written, "the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof." the land is NOT soveriegn for it cannot do anything against us - it is ours to do with as we please and better, to do with according to and within the plan of the Most high Almighty; it is God's gift to us to steward. the land confers nothing; in a loose sense, the land IS the slave for it one of the few things which our father in heaven has give command toward us to dominate along with the animals and plants. we who are the Lord's are not subjects of the land nor the animals.

Your statements and clauses are backwards.

Our father in heaven IS sovereign; his children are sovereign. What He is, we are.

As for your offer regarding the law that I should PM you for: please post it publically so that all may learn.

Originally Posted by Leiahi

Lastly, please, can you sound any more ignorant that your statement?
[...]
have you figered out why things are as they are tween your kingdom and the US?"[/b]

where is the love of God in the question to me, "can you sound any more ignorant"? I am not ignorant; i may be uninformed, but I am not proud nor am I afraid to ask questions -- I had read else where that you were a native of Hawai'i, that and the form of your name that you use here was obvious to me that you are a native, so what's your problem in being asked a simple question?

why are you angry with the question? there is no guile or deceit in it, it's just a question.

Originally Posted by Leiahi

[...]
Obviously, we had different curricullum's in "school" too.
Let me ask you this: Have you figured it out? Rather, direct, do you even know why you are here on SJ?

Neither "school" nor "curricullum" have anything to do with what I know; I've spent all my time since completing high school unlearning all the propoganda that I was taught.

In truth, I DO know why I'm a member of SuiJuris; it's deliberate and no mistake that I'm here.

Originally Posted by Leiahi

[...] in your own little world?

[...] in a really small box.

you assume things not corroborated with evidence and your use of ad hominem (appealing to my emotion) is irrelevant.

You're welcome (for the post).

Come wear my shoes and know who you are, so we can tango.
[/quote]

keep your shoes, you're apprently still caught in emotionalism and pride;

as for me and my family, we shall walk with the Lord.

[mystic one]

whoa whoa. we have been going about this totally wrong. by getting a patent " your recording it in a state office".. you want to make sure there are no liens, if someone has allodial you want him to transfer it to you. but you never want to "patent" it as this is recording it in the office. We are obsessed with paperwork , but the key is getting an apprasial and getting it of of any tax assesment records.


the focus on patents is totally wrong. its actuallIn the state of Washington "Allodial Title" is listed in the Regulatory Codes as a bogus claim. However, that doesn't mean that you can't obtain "true" control of your land. You can never "own" it, as it belongs to G-d. But, you can have absolute control of it, which prevents government interference with your use of it and prevents levies or seizures against it.

I am aware of 2 methods of getting to that point. The first is by bringing the original Land Patent up to date. There is a gentleman in Michigan who teaches a 37 hour seminar on the process. He claims to have been doing it for 28 years and to be one of eight experts at it. I can get you contact info if you are interested.

The second method involves have the county tax assessor issue an appraisal on the land. Note I said appraisal and not assessment. This is a VERY important point. Most assessors will balk at doing an appraisal, but it is their public duty and you can subject them to civil fines if they refuse. Once you have the appraisal, you simply pay it. Now there are several ways to pay it, and I won't get into those at this time. But, the point is, once you have paid the appraised value to the state, the state no longer has any say about the property. The warranty deed will no longer exist and the property will no longer be recorded in the county records. After that point, if you want to sell the property, you will have to have a survey done which describes the property in the original survey terms, metes and bounds, and not as some lot in some development. And you sell it with a Bill of Sale.

Either of these in effect will give you what you are calling Allodial Title.y the reverse according to this.

[Leiahi]

Thanks to all on this board for their tolerance........but I'm busting out of this imposition!

I don't make any post's here that are irrelevant to the subject, except this one. And idknow, that you may come to know the truth.... You've been posting for all of two months.....mostly your famous one-liners irrelevant to the subject matter. I think you believe that contributing.

Emotionalism? I call it integrity, if you want a specific term. Here, I agree to disagree with you, though if one does not know what he is speaking of, it's common knowledge that one usually refrains from speaking about it....or at least have the wisdom to know the difference...give it up already. I see no where that we are helping each other here, do you? Sorry mystic one.....this tit is even less help to the sugject.

btw and in summary, idknow, you can stop ministering...and keep your religion to yourself. God bless you, and God bless me. I beleive in the same "Creator", whether you like it or not. The point of wearing another's shoes is to remain humble...... and walking with the Lord, also means you walk with me! We are all of the Lord, whether you like that or not! Just so you don't twist this any further: it's all commanded in LOVE!

No Expectations, No Assumptions, No Judgments. No Problems, and No loss of Potentials. *Proverbs 11:1-31