Reclaiming Grandfather's land through Land Patent:

juststartingout · #1 07-02-2004, 09:12 AM

I was reading info on the land patent here in the forums and a couple of things stuck out to me. One being that the land patent secures the land for the persons heirs to follow. Also, that it has only been in the last 3 generations that we have started to give up our rights to our property.

That said - here's some background: My g-father was a foster child at the age of 16. He inherited a large plot of land (and sum of $$) from his mother when she passed away. he was living with a judge

Judge convinced him to sign over the land to him before I believe he (g-father) was of age (he was still 16). Judge turned and sold the land. One of the town's hosipitals sits on the land today, and last time I was down there (10 years ago) the rest of it was still vacant.

So, if no other patents have been made claim on the land - is the land still really "ours"? Any suggestions on how to start the journey of dicovery here? The location in question is over 2000 miles from where I live.

JSO

Jerseee · #2 07-02-2004, 11:14 AM

Get the original deed or the one on file in that county and then write the BLM in Virginia. The information you need to accomplish this is in the downloads section of this site.

Find where your g-father signed for the land and read the doc--you'll be surprised. You are an heir providing that your g-father did not sell the land to the judge.

juststartingout · #3 07-02-2004, 12:48 PM

so if he just signed it over and didn't sell it we are still the heir? just wanting to make sure I have my info straight b4 presenting the suggestion to my family.

juststartingout · #4 07-02-2004, 03:43 PM

doing some research around the Internet as my aunt that might have access to the Will, etc. is at work right now. I do not find any Land Patents for ANYONE of my grandfather's surname in the entire state. However, I do find it under his g-grandfather. So, if it was passed down, as in inherited, would the Patent just stay in the original person's name then? I should probably be asking these questions on a geneaology forum

Jerseee · #5 07-03-2004, 12:43 AM

Please find out the details first before presenting this to the family. YOu may not have a claim.

I suggest investigating the deed and the status of whom has possession of the property first and then back track from there to see where the invalidness of it is (if there is any).

juststartingout · #6 07-03-2004, 02:48 PM

I found the Township, Range, and Section # of the land in question and it was Patented in 1835 to a person that I have never heard of, but could be an ancestor. (that side of the family tree has not gotten researched that far back)....

Here's my thinking, so pleae tell me if I am W-R-O-N-G:

I have found who the land has been deeded to and the last deed was in 1998. I am thinking I have to research each exchange/sale and get copies of each of those deeds? Also, to have to prove ancestory to this particular person whom had the original land patent, and to get a copy of the original documents my g-father had showing the land was his in the first place. My thoughts are not coming out too well right now....noisy children in the background.

I am just in communication with my parents about this. We will not talk to any other family members until more clear on the issues and facts.

Jerseee · #7 07-04-2004, 12:24 AM

I don't believe you need to go that far back. Because when it was your g-father's land--he signed the deed and it was fee simple plus, it was for his heirs and assigns.

Now from my understanding if there was a mortgage between your g-father and the judge, then you may have something. And if there were mortgages inbetween then and now--you may have something there as well since a land patent is ultimate ownership.

So go back to your g-father and find if there are mortgages from then until now. Then look up the definition of "mortgage" (if you haven't already) and you'll be surpirsed what it means.

juststartingout · #8 07-05-2004, 04:58 PM

Thanks Jerseee - I have read up on the mortgage defs a long time ago

The question that has been posed from my parents is this: What is the purpose of relcaiming the land? To put people out of business? For genealogy purposes? etc... I started thinking about it and am wondering ...if we were able to reclaim the land, what would that *really* mean for my family? I guess I am not totaly understanding the ramifications of it all. I mean, my main goal is to see justice served and see my grandmother and her children get what they rightfully have coming to them. Like I said -the town's hospital and a shopping center sit on part of the land along with some residential housing. To go in there and say, "this is our land you have to leave" would be horrible!

Ice · #9 07-05-2004, 09:55 PM

Why would that be horrible?... It's been going on for years and years and no one has thought it "horrible". The government's (local and otherwise) have no problem claiming the land that belongs to others (easement, imminent domain, etc) and rarely does anyone fight them to protect their property. So what is so horrible? Is it horrible that you would be "waking up" a few people to the truth?

If you feel bad about taking property that others "believe" belongs to them... then don't. But look, if they were "hoodwinked" by the fraud that is perpetrated upon the people of this great land -- is that YOUR FAULT?

There are other options available to you. Once you have demonstrated that the land rightfully belongs to you and acquire "allodial title"... you could list these people as "tenants" on the land... you could charge them rent... and it would ease the burden of "property tax" that they are currently doling out. You could turn it into a win-win situation for all.

Think on it. You may have a wonderful opportunity to teach and be a "leader" by example. But, don't count your chickens too soon. The chain of evidence you need to demonstrate rights in the patent has been broken in the case of these others that now sit upon the land. It may be that you can only demonstrate rights in the property that is not currently occupied by others.

We do not use this process to "take" from others. We use this process to protect what we have -- what we have NOW -- not what once was.

Always strive to do the right thing. There is no harm in protecting your property.

Ice

4Integrity · #10 07-06-2004, 12:19 AM

Juststartingout,

You must make sure you have the land description in metes and bounds to properly secure your LP.

metes and bounds n. a surveyor's description of a parcel of real property, using carefully measured distances, angles and directions, which results in what is called a "legal description" of the land, as distinguished from merely a street address or parcel number. Such a metes and bounds description is required to be recorded in official county records on a subdivision map and in the deeds when the boundaries of a parcel or lot are first drawn.

Just like we have a STRAWMAN representation of our name created by the STATE, they did the same thing with REAL PROPERTY descriptions (STRAWLAND). Thats why we have to get the earliest deeded Land Description because it will have the original Land description, in metes and bounds, from way back before the STATE started their scheme of "slight of hand."

The new deeds use the Plat system, which is the STRAWLAND description I was referring to. It also connects to their tax maps too, so we wouldn't wanna really use that. If you refer to the land as anything other than what the original land description was then you won't have a chance. It would be like not challenging the judge on how your name is spelled on the court documents in court (If you had to go that is, of course....)