Bad-land, Bad-title, or Just Bad-advice

[Glenn]

There is a lot of emotion in this forum and that is good.

Passion for our land is what we need to have. After all is that, not what our forefathers fought for some 230 years ago.

Some of you have a basic grasp on land rights and what title to land is or should be, others have some re-learning to do.

There are some extremely important points that must be understood.

1) Land is a physical location upon the face of the earth and covering it with fresh water or alterations to the seascape by man or nature changes nothing.

2) Once a paten is issued, it is a permanent part of the record and can not be changed in anyway whatsoever, as the original parties to the contract are no longer able to agree to the change.

3) This is the part everyone wants a land paten for but once the land owner has proven to have a un-clouded chain of title to the land the land owner thinks they can change it and therefore rendering the paten VOID for there purposes.

4) Property is anything on the land i.e……a house, trees, sidewalk(s), driveway(s), ect….All property can be removed but the land still remains.

5) Legal title, i.e….warranty deed, ect., with title insurance.

6) Any other deed other than a lawful deed (direct chain to the paten) is the holder of a Legle title (see #5).

7) A lawful deed is a clear, unclouded chain from the holder backwards to the land paten without a break or blemish.

There are a other points to consider such as the act of congress that authorized the sale of the land from public to private. Without the act, you do not know where you are, what the law is, or where you need to start.

You must start at the point you are at, you know who you purchased your land from (or you believe is yours).

You have to either higher a researcher who knows there way around the hall of records (in Michigan it is the county Registrar of Deeds) in your state it may be different, or you have to dive in and get your feet wet and do the time consuming job yourself.

Doing the job your self is by far the most satisfying of the two, but it is not for everyone.

You will find the listings ether posted within the records grouped by parcel number, the county’s method of keeping track of the land they believe they are the trustee of in trust until the lawful owner come to claim it

The way it is done in most of Michigan is not that easy, where I am the record is kept daily, then added to the weeks recordings, then to the month, well I would think you get the idea and it can take a while. That is partly why I believe it is best to do it yourself unless you have more resources at your disposal than you have places to keep them, and if that is the case by all means pay someone to do the searching for you. (If you have enough I may be available!)

If any of you have questions, Please post them and I will tell you what I would do.

If anyone would like to know is required to protect there interest in there possessions I can give some good tips and direction but the UCC can only work if you have a right to the land and not just an interest in a note!

There is hope and most if not all can do this and need to.

I have not been educated in the legal arts by any accreted state approved school(s), just hard work and as my bride (of 26 years) would say I need to know everything!

On you all, Blessings.

With HIM all things are possible, all you have to do is ask.

Glenn

Glenn.

You have recognized the fact that there are many questions being asked on this thread, and that there are potentially misleading information that is being given toward those questions.

You have also stipulated that you are well versed in the area of land patents, yet you have not posted any relative data that would verify the credentials you allege. Most of that are here, are here for the purpose of learning, myself included, therefore, in my opinion, it would be most helpful and beneficial if you would simply come forward with a format of some sort that would allow a person that is entitled to a land patent to execute such documentation.

Thank you.

Jerry

[Admin]

Glenn,

Welcome to the forum, your participation and insight is very much appreciated.

Originally Posted by Glenn

There is a lot of emotion in this forum and that is good.

Passion for our land is what we need to have. After all is that, not what our forefathers fought for some 230 years ago.

Some of you have a basic grasp on land rights and what title to land is or should be, others have some re-learning to do.

There are some extremely important points that must be understood.

1) Land is a physical location upon the face of the earth and covering it with fresh water or alterations to the seascape by man or nature changes nothing.

2) Once a paten is issued, it is a permanent part of the record and can not be changed in anyway whatsoever, as the original parties to the contract are no longer able to agree to the change.

3) This is the part everyone wants a land paten for but once the land owner has proven to have a un-clouded chain of title to the land the land owner thinks they can change it and therefore rendering the paten VOID for there purposes.

4) Property is anything on the land i.e……a house, trees, sidewalk(s), driveway(s), ect….All property can be removed but the land still remains.

5) Legal title, i.e….warranty deed, ect., with title insurance.

6) Any other deed other than a lawful deed (direct chain to the paten) is the holder of a Legle title (see #5).

7) A lawful deed is a clear, unclouded chain from the holder backwards to the land paten without a break or blemish.

There are a other points to consider such as the act of congress that authorized the sale of the land from public to private. Without the act, you do not know where you are, what the law is, or where you need to start.

You must start at the point you are at, you know who you purchased your land from (or you believe is yours).

You have to either higher a researcher who knows there way around the hall of records (in Michigan it is the county Registrar of Deeds) in your state it may be different, or you have to dive in and get your feet wet and do the time consuming job yourself.

Doing the job your self is by far the most satisfying of the two, but it is not for everyone.

You will find the listings ether posted within the records grouped by parcel number, the county’s method of keeping track of the land they believe they are the trustee of in trust until the lawful owner come to claim it

The way it is done in most of Michigan is not that easy, where I am the record is kept daily, then added to the weeks recordings, then to the month, well I would think you get the idea and it can take a while. That is partly why I believe it is best to do it yourself unless you have more resources at your disposal than you have places to keep them, and if that is the case by all means pay someone to do the searching for you. (If you have enough I may be available!)

If any of you have questions, Please post them and I will tell you what I would do.

If anyone would like to know is required to protect there interest in there possessions I can give some good tips and direction but the UCC can only work if you have a right to the land and not just an interest in a note!

There is hope and most if not all can do this and need to.

I have not been educated in the legal arts by any accreted state approved school(s), just hard work and as my bride (of 26 years) would say I need to know everything!

On you all, Blessings.

With HIM all things are possible, all you have to do is ask.

Glenn

[Glenn]

Originally Posted by jerrypitts

Glenn.

You have recognized the fact that there are many questions being asked on this thread, and that there are potentially misleading information that is being given toward those questions.

You have also stipulated that you are well versed in the area of land patents, yet you have not posted any relative data that would verify the credentials you allege. Most of that are here, are here for the purpose of learning, myself included, therefore, in my opinion, it would be most helpful and beneficial if you would simply come forward with a format of some sort that would allow a person that is entitled to a land patent to execute such documentation.

Thank you.

Jerry

Jerry;

As you probably already know and are just testing me, but I’m game…..

NO ONE CAN HAVE A LAND PATEN ISSUED AGAINST LAND THAT IS CURRENTLY COVERED BY A PATEN.

[b]”a format of some sort that would allow a person that is entitled to a land patent to execute such documentation.”[b]

This is one of the misconceptions I see within this site.

With that said, all land within the several states (east of the Mississippi) has been patented for the most part. There are a few parcels out there to be discovered but it is mostly by luck that one is found not by sweat from searching.

If you DO NOT HAVE A UN-CLOUDED CHAIN OF TITLE BACK TO THE LAND PATEN ------ YOU HAVE NOTHING AND THAT’S THAT!

I can not instruct you on the steps to prefect an interest in your land….as I do not know where your land is located or what the circumstances may have encroached or has the appearance of encroachment, this is a individual procedure. No two are the same so I gave an over-view as to say.

If you have a question on something a little more explicit, I will attempt to help you understand the issue and the cure.

Thanks for the reply!

On you, Blessings.

With HIM all things are possible, all you have to do is ask.

Glenn

Originally Posted by Glenn

Jerry;


NO ONE CAN HAVE A LAND PATEN ISSUED AGAINST LAND THAT IS CURRENTLY COVERED BY A PATEN.

Glenn

Glenn: In regards to your above statement, please explain the passage in the Homestead Act of circa 1862, stating the purchaser 'shall be entitled to a patent upon' such and such conditions.

Jerry

[Livefire]

According to my understanding, one is not trying to have a patent issued; rather, one seeks to establish themselves as an assignee of the original patent. This supposedly gives you a superior title to the land.

Originally Posted by Livefire

According to my understanding, one is not trying to have a patent issued; rather, one seeks to establish themselves as an assignee of the original patent. This supposedly gives you a superior title to the land.

Assignee status is initiated through the process of implementing documents such as the warranty deed, bill of sale, transfer notice of some sort as the result of gifting the property, etc. Further implementation of paperwork to acquire such a status would be redundant. If you are the assignee, you are the assignee, plain and simple.

If, on the otherhand, at least according to the homestead act, you are attempting to establish your 'entitlement' to a patent, that would definitely require further paperwork.

Jerry.

[Glenn]

Alright everyone………

I though the obvious would not have to be explained……

1) The “the Homestead Act of circa 1862, stating the purchaser 'shall be entitled to a patent upon' such and such conditions.” Is not relevant as you are not the original purchaser under that act, or are you?

2) By doing the research and proving an un-broken chain of title and obtaining a certified copy of every change of title from you to the paten and sandwiching them into an ABSTRACT, you do assert your superior claim that NO ONE CAN OVERCOME as the supreme court for the united states of America has ruled on so many times that THEY WILL NOT HEAR IT AGAIN…

3) The paten is the supreme title and by the fact of NO BREAK in title you are an assigned, an heir, or a grantee. In any of the foregoing carries the same weight in a court of law.

There is NO OTHER PAPERWORK!

On you all, Blessings.

With HIM all things are possible, all you have to do is ask.

Glenn

[Livefire]

Jerry and Glenn give great info here! One more litte question to clear up any misunderstanding on my part. When an "unbroken chain of title" is referred to, does this mean any land that has ever been foreclosed upon or seized cannot be updated to reflect assignee status on the original patent?

Originally Posted by Glenn

Alright everyone………

I though the obvious would not have to be explained……

1) The “the Homestead Act of circa 1862, stating the purchaser 'shall be entitled to a patent upon' such and such conditions.” Is not relevant as you are not the original purchaser under that act, or are you?

Rolling back the hands of time... let us survey the exact language of the pertinent law: The Homestead Act .. excerpt from Sec 2: "And provided, further, That in case of the death of both father and mother, leaving an infant child, or children, under twenty-one years of age, the right and fee shall enure to the benefit of said infant child or children; and the executor, administrator, or guardian may, at any time within two years after the death of the surviving parent, and in accordance with the laws of the State in which such children for the time being have their domicil, sell said land for the benefit of said infants, but for no other purpose; and the purchaser shall acquire the absolute title by the purchase, and be entitled to a patent from the United States, on payment of the office fees and sum of money herein specified."

As seen in the above, the language of the law plainly states that the purchaser of the property (not the original patentee) has entitlement to a patent from the United States... not some warranty deed from the state codified offices. An entitlement has to be acted upon (accepted and judicially or administratively ruled upon) before it can be enforced. If you do not accept the entitlement and seek out the end result (a patent), then the patent (in this case) remains as stated on the record...

Originally Posted by Glenn

2) By doing the research and proving an un-broken chain of title and obtaining a certified copy of every change of title from you to the paten and sandwiching them into an ABSTRACT, you do assert your superior claim that NO ONE CAN OVERCOME as the supreme court for the united states of America has ruled on so many times that THEY WILL NOT HEAR IT AGAIN…

Please be so bold as to provide a Supreme court reference that stipulates what you have indicated above. As my memory serves me, the last SC case heard, stipulated that if you have the patent, then you have the land. In other words,, please provide a case wherein this so-called sandwich has proven to be effective.

Originally Posted by Glenn

3) The paten is the supreme title and by the fact of NO BREAK in title you are an assigned, an heir, or a grantee. In any of the foregoing carries the same weight in a court of law.

There is NO OTHER PAPERWORK!

On you all, Blessings.

With HIM all things are possible, all you have to do is ask.

Glenn

Again, please show proof of your claim.

Jerry.