Adverse Bizness

[jdogpupil]

For lack of a more specific forum, I choose this one - it falls under the heading of land possession, adverse possession, etc.

I'm actively seeking a proper Real Estate Attorney, but few are knowledgeable of Adverse Poss. Here goes:

Here's my sit-u-ation:
A house has sat for 6 years without being occupied. The taxes have been unpaid for the entire period - after 5 years of delinquency it is scheduled to be sold at tax sale in Feb.

The owner appeared (from somewhere), a lady who is living on state support and with no means of caring for or "leveraging" the house.

She has been reluctant to sell the property to my friend, though they continue to mildly discuss the possibility. Problem is, time is running out! In December the city will publicize the items for the coming tax auction.

I know a great deal about Adverse Possession, so I can imagine adversely aquiring the place, especially since no one lives there and the lady on title has let it rot. I could easily pay the 15K in back-taxes and begin the process.

But I would PREFER to have pure title. Once I have begun possessing the property, I wonder how I could invite the title-holder (lawfully) to quitclaim the property to me. If I included some form of consideration?

Who know enough about RE law to give an opinion?

[Notorial dissent]

One of two things is going to happen. One, the owner is going to pay the back taxes and redeem her property from the city, and then it will be hers to do with as she chooses. Or, two, the city will sell it to someone for the back taxes, and then it will be theirs to do with as they please. The later is the more likely.

At this point there is no way for adverse possession to enter into it, providing your state even allows for that. You would have to have been in full and complete possession for the required statutory time, and that didn’t happen. At this point, anything you do will be considered trespassing and they will very likely throw you in jail.

Someone is going to have to pay the property taxes to get title. Chances are, that if the taxes haven’t been paid for five years, that someone has been buying the tax certificates as investments at sale each year, and now that the required amount of time has passed when they do the next sale they will ask for a Treasurer’s deed and get the property.

The only option available at this point is to work out a deal with the owner, pay the taxes in her name, and have her deed the property over to you as repayment. This is not going to be easy.

[Ice]

You can pay the back taxes and acquire the property. We've discussed it elsewhere in the forum. Maybe someone that has more time available to look for it could provide you with a link to such a thread.

Ice

[charlesa6]

I agree with Ice. You don't even need owner permission to do so.

[jdogpupil]

I'm intrigued. Give me some key phrases to search with and I'll scan the forum for what you describe.

I don't yet understand how paying the back taxes leads to a claim to the title, but this sounds nifty.

[jdogpupil]

I'm at a loss, here -
Can anyone elaborate on "You can pay the back taxes and aquire the property"? More than hint at it?

I can only assume that they haven't been talking about the annual tax sale. I cannot wait for it to go to tax sale - this is San Diego and property is a premium. Can someone give me an explanation? Link to a previous discussion? Resources?

help.

[charlesa6]

Originally Posted by jdogpupil

I'm at a loss, here -
Can anyone elaborated on "You can pay the back taxes and aquire the property"? More than hint at it?

I can only assume that they haven't been talking about the annual tax sale. I cannot wait for it to go to tax sale - this is San Diego and property is a premium. Can someone give me an explanation? Link to a previous discussion? Resources?

help.

Have you check with your county? Have you check the property tax code in your county?

[mikah2k]

Originally Posted by jdogpupil

I'm intrigued. Give me some key phrases to search with and I'll scan the forum for what you describe.


I don't yet understand how paying the back taxes leads to a claim to the title, but this sounds nifty.

By paying taxes, you will not get a warranty [or grant] deed, only some form of quit-claim (such as special-warranty deed, or treasurer's deed, or trustee's deed).

Real estate taxes are public records.

Get the legal description and get the tax id # (or locator #, or parcel #, or etc.) for the property: ask the homeowner, or ask a title company (for a fee), or ask a real estate agent, or go to the county [recorder's] office containing land records/plat books (the tax id # may be in a book), or if you're lucky your county has a website (check netronline.com)

Put that tax id # on your check, draft, money order, and maybe even write the [usps] address of the property on the memo line, then go "pay". Make a copy of the instrument used to "pay" taxes.

You may want to create a right of possession by estoppel, writing a letter to homeowner, stating

"absent any objection within three days following the date certain of service of this letter on the recipient, jdogpupil will be paying the taxes and claiming a (possessory) lien against the property identified by tax id # _."

Write up your own "Claim for Lien" (or whatever they call it where you dwell) and get it recorded [where deeds are recorded] with some exhibit A, a copy of the instrument used to "pay" the taxes, and a copy of the letter above and a copy of your affidavit/declaration of service/mailing.

"Claim for Lien
jdogpupil hereby claims a (possessory) lien against the property[or land] identified with the following legal description to-wit: ____[write legal description here]____

_____________
signature of
jdogpupil"

Get your "Claim for Lien" notarized.

Then break down the door, take possession and start living..... and report your story here.

[blu3duk]

The taxing authority does not care who submits "limited liability discharge of debt" [you cant pay anything with the current monetary system, only discharge a debt with limited liability using FRAUDs]

Once you pay the atax bill you record a lien against the property like any tax collector would, and send a bill to the person who let the taxes lapse, giving them notice to pay or quit, including paying your time for paperwork and research and such..... this only appplies to arrearage of past years not current and may have to be past due a certain amount of time for a current year [in other words checking the legislative intent might not hurt before you lay out a few FRAUDs figgering on gaining a chunk of property to use [you cannot own it unless you go find the original patent and become a heir or assign to that patent, similar to what the olde "ABSTRACT" companies did for you, but those have become "title" companies insuring the "chain of title" for useage of the property not ownership of patented claims.

I know of some folks who purposely let their tax bills go, cause the charges are such that they actually earn more on the money they invest than the penalties are accessed, although the taxes have not reach that high of proportion in the republic of idaho yet, some states have folks submiting to $15,000 per year rent to stay in a house built in 1965 on a lot in the city limits.... on such a bill interest or investment in a business can out distance any penalties, and they only have to remitt those taxes actually accessed in those areas cause they know the "codified intent of the legislature" and the law, and have a very good understanding of contractual obligations, so picking on one of those folks might not be a good idea, and as such you should wait until it comes up for tax sale.

Another method of aquiring the land for back taxes is to offer to remit tax payment to the person who is behind and take over the property due to the fact it appears they care no longer to remit to the taxing authority the rent imposed on their property and that you can and are willing to do so because youare a god little federal subject and state citizen..... or something along those lines that maybe isnt quite as inflamatory as blu3duk might write....

the big thing is to research the people out cause they may just be waiting to pay those late taxes in an investment move rather than from a position of lack of ability or caring, you may be trying to take from one of us.

blu3duk

William
central Idaho republic

Under the defacto laws of mortgage and deeds of trust, etc, it would be possible for you to make such a claim. On the otherhand, you have stated that you are seeking a 'pure title'. That is where the problem comes in. "Pure title" I am presuming to mean the patent on that land and its appurtenances.

The patent holder is long gone unless the land has passed from generation to generation without breaking the chain of heirship. If the land is under a warranty deed, then you can be assured that it is also under adverse possession already by the current holder of the warranty deed.

Aside from the above, the Congress of the United States, in 1933 passed the Senate Document #43 entitled 'contracts payable in gold'. This passed along with the HJR192 package. In the Document #43, the Congress clearly and emphatically state that ownership of land amounts to usery and that all property belongs to the state.

I wish you luck.

Jerry.

Originally Posted by jdogpupil

For lack of a more specific forum, I choose this one - it falls under the heading of land possession, adverse possession, etc.

I'm actively seeking a proper Real Estate Attorney, but few are knowledgeable of Adverse Poss. Here goes:

Here's my sit-u-ation:
A house has sat for 6 years without being occupied. The taxes have been unpaid for the entire period - after 5 years of delinquency it is scheduled to be sold at tax sale in Feb.

The owner appeared (from somewhere), a lady who is living on state support and with no means of caring for or "leveraging" the house.

She has been reluctant to sell the property to my friend, though they continue to mildly discuss the possibility. Problem is, time is running out! In December the city will publicize the items for the coming tax auction.

I know a great deal about Adverse Possession, so I can imagine adversely aquiring the place, especially since no one lives there and the lady on title has let it rot. I could easily pay the 15K in back-taxes and begin the process.

But I would PREFER to have pure title. Once I have begun possessing the property, I wonder how I could invite the title-holder (lawfully) to quitclaim the property to me. If I included some form of consideration?

Who know enough about RE law to give an opinion?