How to buy a gun legally?

[macerico]

I'd like to purchase a firearm. Under the law, there is no reason for my being denied this.

However, I've got two issues. Mostly, I'm concerned over the "paper trail" that will surely be used to confiscate guns someday.

The other is in the hidden questions of the required ATF Form 4473.

Most of my issues are on the first page.

You can refused to give a SSN with no real problems, but you get to these issues where I don't know what to say.....

(the form you'll see is the 10/2001 version)

Item #10 (see picture) asks for your "country of citizenship." I'd be inclined to put "American national."

Item #11 (see picture) asks for your "INS-issued number" if you are not a "citizen of the United States." I'd be inclined to put "not applicable."

Item #12j (see picture) asks if you've ever "renounced your United States citizenship." I don't know what to say there, because to do that, there is a specific formula you must go through (I know I've not done it), and people like us contend that we were never United States citizens.

I know the obvious thing is that all of this is because firearm dealers have to have federal licenses from the gestapo state, so they have to follow thier rules. I also know that the easier thing would be to buy from a private person and not a gun shop, but what I'm looking for is a specific model of firearm that's easiest to locate by getting it from a dealer.

How would any of you handle this? Any ideas?

http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/

[KITCHIE]

I would legally buy a gun from a private party. Prefferably from someone who never registered it.

Kitchie

[fulltitle]

WITHOUT PREJUDICE
#1 A correction is not necessarily a renunctiation.
#2 Perhaps somehow a sale of a weapon from a United States dealer to someone in the Texas republic might be an export.

[macerico]

Yeah, after some thinking the only real options are this...

1. Find a gun dealer, go over the forms with him and explain my objections. Calling yourself a "Libertarian" at this point might clarify a lot to him, but still, you have paper trail and likely delays just because you don't fit in with the herd of cattle.

2. Find someone who understands you that will buy the gun for themselves then sell it to you in a private transaction.

3. Get very lucky and find the weapon you want in a private sale (hard...slim pickings out there where I live).

[fulltitle]

Originally Posted by macerico

Yeah, after some thinking the only real options are this...

1. Find a gun dealer, go over the forms with him and explain my objections. Calling yourself a "Libertarian" at this point might clarify a lot to him, but still, you have paper trail and likely delays just because you don't fit in with the herd of cattle.

2. Find someone who understands you that will buy the gun for themselves then sell it to you in a private transaction.

3. Get very lucky and find the weapon you want in a private sale (hard...slim pickings out there where I live).

WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Or roll your own.

[SansRecours]

Could you not purchase from someone privately.

I know down here in the south one does not need any kind of check when purchasing privately.


SansRecours


PS Your avatar frightens me. I feel I am taking a big chance responding in fear that that running creature might run me over. I am having of it running around my house at night. Please call it off! (haha)

[fulltitle]

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

[fulltitle]

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

[mrg]

I have said it before and will continue to say it:

I think one of the reasons we do not yet have open martial law rather than the police state we do have, is that there are so many American firearm owners such as hunters, farmers, and etc...

When I was young and lived in Texas I used to wonder about the rifles in the gun racks in the pickup trucks and the bumper stickers about "they can have my guns when the pry my cold dead hands off them..."

Now I do not wonder anymore.

[idknow]

Originally Posted by macerico

I'd like to purchase a firearm. Under the law, there is no reason for my being denied this.

However, I've got two issues. Mostly, I'm concerned over the "paper trail" that will surely be used to confiscate guns someday.

The other is in the hidden questions of the required ATF Form 4473.

Most of my issues are on the first page.

You can refused to give a SSN with no real problems, but you get to these issues where I don't know what to say.....

(the form you'll see is the 10/2001 version)

Item #10 (see picture) asks for your "country of citizenship." I'd be inclined to put "American national."

Item #11 (see picture) asks for your "INS-issued number" if you are not a "citizen of the United States." I'd be inclined to put "not applicable."

Item #12j (see picture) asks if you've ever "renounced your United States citizenship." I don't know what to say there, because to do that, there is a specific formula you must go through (I know I've not done it), and people like us contend that we were never United States citizens.

I know the obvious thing is that all of this is because firearm dealers have to have federal licenses from the gestapo state, so they have to follow thier rules. I also know that the easier thing would be to buy from a private person and not a gun shop, but what I'm looking for is a specific model of firearm that's easiest to locate by getting it from a dealer.

How would any of you handle this? Any ideas?

http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/

Macr, for "country" I'd put the `personal form' of your birth-state, ie, I'm a New Yorker; Californian, Washingtonian, etc.

On the forum there is a post which lists the personal-forms for all the states.