Master or Slave?

[suijuris]

I was having trouble finding the right words, Ice and Jerseee just summed it quite well.

Originally Posted by wirlwind

If there isn't a law that they broke, then the judges can do what they do best with my blessing- make one up! !

I cannot believe that you really advocate violating the Rights of a man or woman in such a fashion. If you want to voilate their rights so badly, why call upon a judge to do it - just find a big stick and do it yourself. The same result will be accomplished.



And creating a new "law" does not mean a punishment is any less of a violation to one's rights. I know plenty who have been punished in accord with a "law", but the punishment was a gross violation of their rights, because they never harmed anyone.



Like Ice said, why do you think we got to this point in this country?



... through careful manipulation of the hearts and minds of the masses, using media, politics, and the church...



Like my man HB says, you can quote me on that!



Echoes of 911...

I have had to put a dog down before, and it ain't a good feeling.



But again, that's not the point.



The sad thing about this whole post is that the truthful statement that even churches are being used to spread the lies and propaganda.



The few who do see this, however are the ones willing to believe that rules can be re-written or used against the makers.



Contrary to popular belief, one man or woman can make a difference. You can be that man or woman.



I must admit that it is intimidating, but that is because of their design. They want you to believe that you will lose.



To paraphrase Morpheus, Where others have failed, you will succeed.



To quote scripture, With God all things are possible. or,



The weapons of our warfare are not carnal (fleshly), but are mighty to God to the pulling down of strongholds.



The attainment of freedom can be accomplished even today. It surely already has been done.



The bastards that publish cases can choose to not publish the ones that help us, so that makes it a little more challenging, but still attainable.



You have no rights if you deny others their rights. Further, you have no rights if you don't assert them or question the assaults on them.



Ok, I'm prepping for the hearing again.



HB

[Jerseee]

Wirlwind,



This can easily be viewed as 'verbal swordplay'. This is not my intent to you.



My purpose (maybe as well as others) was to inform you that this is HOW, they abuse your rights. This is HOW they enslave folks and other nations.



Third party interlopers and instigators! They create a problem, offer to mediate, then have a solution. the ultimate in pimpin'! These bastards pimp and pander as an occupation.



To shock you, instill fear, then cause the problem and then to have a answer for your problem. This is what they do! they have an answer to your problems before you do. If that doesn't wake you up, I'm afraid nothing will.



Don't you find it a bit strange that the patriot act came out so fast? But they can't 'allegedly' balance the budget that fast?



They are real quick to limit your liberty for the sake of security. But if you sacrifice Liberty for security then you deserve neither liberty or security.



The ends will justify the means.

[Camino]

Point, Set, Match.

I have always believed that if you can think of it some rat basta**d has done it. Which doesn't say alot for us. Anyway, it is hard to discount, see through the deceit, when it involves the heart. It Sucks when they use your own compassion against you. Live and learn I guess.

Anyway point taken.

[wirlwind]

I stand corrected. But I can't stand by and watch a poor innocent animal being abused without trying to do something about it- whether it is mine or someone else's or no one's. Maybe because there are no laws to protect them. I wouldn't watch a child or another human being abused either. But there are laws to protect them. Maybe I would have to pick up a big stick, but at 5 foot nothin' I don't know how successful I would be.

I've had to put down dogs (several) and cats and a ferret, and each time, it breaks my heart. But I always took them to the vet and had them put down.



And I know that we are losing rights daily. And i know that judges make up the rules as they go, and that it isn't right. But aren't there laws about cruelty to animals? If someone purposely is cruel to an animal, should they just be allowed to walk away? I know about the property rights, but what about the poor creatures that belong to no one? They can be hurt and abused and no one has to answer for it just because they aren't someone's porperty? They are God's property, and I was put here as a steward of God's property. So in my heart, and soul, I cannot stand by and do nothing. My first duty will always be to obey God's laws, which are written in the hearts of man. I understand what you are saying about man's laws, but, man's laws suck. There I go again.

[EnSabahNur]

Expect a lot of stupid distractions leading up to the next "staged" terrrrrrrrrrist attack either on, or around election day.



Coincidentally, FEMA has a Nationwide "Excercise" planned for that day, to practice sealing off towns and cities in the event of a Terrrrrrrrrist attack, and Martial law is declared.



Much like the 35 Excercises the Military had going 9/11 that "Simulated" flying planes into buildings. They actually admitted to having remote control passenger jets in the air....but of course the one's that hit the WTC's were "Real Hijacked Planes" and not the ones being used in their very odd "Excercise" that just happened to be going on that same morning.



Can you all smell that..........

[Jerseee]

wirlwind,



I understand your pain. After seeing fellow Americans carted away on the back of an Airplane in a casket I just wanted to............................. nevermind.

[Ice]

I understand your position. But look at just one of your above statements.

Originally Posted by wirlwind

<font color=Olive>But I can't stand by and watch a poor innocent animal being abused without trying to do something about it- whether it is mine or someone else's or no one's.[/color]

Note: " ... or someone else's ... "



If it is someone else's property than you really have no say. You might try to "reason" with the owner that there is a better way ... or ... you may try to purchase the animal from the owner to saves its little ass the abuse... BUT the big picture is that we don't really have any say when it comes to another man's property.



And the truth is -- we need a lot less LAWS on the books. We don't need the gubmint to protect us -- we need the gubmint to get outta our way and leave us to protect ourselves ( get rid of all the gun laws ).



Ice

[Camino]

May I interject.....does one living being have the right of ownership (life or death) over another? Or is the right of life Sacrosanct? While I believe that property rights and life are sacrosanct they also carry with them an obligation. As sentient beings it is our obligation to preserve the rights of those incapable of perception.

Do unto others......sentient or otherwise? I am not speaking of food here.... the right or need to survive is not the subject here, to raise prey for for sustinence is NOT open for debate. I am speaking about knowing the difference.

[suijuris]

Originally Posted by wirlwind

I stand corrected. But I can't stand by and watch a poor innocent animal being abused without trying to do something about it- whether it is mine or someone else's or no one's.

I feel your pain. I had a little pet pig when I was a child, and I was heartbroken when it took sick and died... I suppose the reason it was given to me was because it was the runt of the litter, but nobody told me that it was likely to die.

Originally Posted by wirlwind

But aren't there laws about cruelty to animals? If someone purposely is cruel to an animal, should they just be allowed to walk away?

Yes, such "laws" do exist. But until a man or woman you love is forced to serve several years in prison for violating one of those laws, or any other law where there is no injured party, you will probably not understand. My best friend is now serving a sentence partially due to such a law. Who is injured party? Man or beast? It is just fine to have a big heart, and would say I do. But my compassion for any animal must end the instant that compassion would cause another man or woman's rights to be violated. We are all capable of controlling our wills, and no matter how difficult the choice may be, our emotions cannot be allowed to destroy another's life.



Like Ice said, we do not need more laws. Plenty of laws exist about animal cruelty, drug use, gun control, etc, but those laws cannot take away anyone's motive or will to do the act. No amount of legislation can create a utopian society, and anyone who promises a utopian society will always demand your rights and responsibility in exchange.

Originally Posted by wirlwind

I know about the property rights, but what about the poor creatures that belong to no one? They can be hurt and abused and no one has to answer for it just because they aren't someone's property? They are God's property, and I was put here as a steward of God's property.

If they are God's property, then why can you not be satisfied to allow God to punish them as he sees fit? Why not trust him to keep his word, do you not believe him when he says:



Vengeance is mine, I will repay...



I do not wish to turn this into a religious issue, but some reference has made reference to God's property and God's law...

Originally Posted by wirlwind

So in my heart, and soul, I cannot stand by and do nothing. My first duty will always be to obey God's laws, which are written in the hearts of man. I understand what you are saying about man's laws, but, man's laws suck. There I go again.

It would appear that you believe all rights come from from God. I had the old and new testaments of the KJV pounded into my head growing up. That being said, I am not able to recall any COMMANDMENT about loving animals, rather, love your neighbor, do good unto others, etc. So where in God's law is man given the right to punish another man for acts of animal cruelty?



I also remember a whole ton of wooly little lambs being slaughtered and burned to please the almighty, so it is a good thing we don't live in that day. We would all go to hell for our emotions or to prison for our cruelty!



Anyway, I can see this thread is going a lot of different directions, that is fine, I enjoy discussing these topics from time to time.