Returned BOE

[dreloc]

I am Sorry I should have said promissory note....I just see that word "BOE" flying around here a lot...my question is how could you call a Bill of Exchange a debt instrument?? Can you pay a debt with a debt?? As we all know they are negotiable instruments not FRN'S.. You were probably right about 5 years ago but not now since we have been out of BK.....??
a lot of this info seems to contradict itself... ??

...HJR 192.. every provision contained in or made with respect to any obligation which purports to give the obligee a right to require payments in gold or a particular kind of coin or currency, or in an amount in money of the United States measured thereby, is declared to be against public policy.



§ 5103. Legal tender

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts. This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise..... So what would happen if they did not except?? UCC 3-603(b)

[KarenM]

If someone owed you money, would you accept such a note?

When the note came due, would you let it be closed out with another promissory note?

In the mean while, how do you pay your grocery bill -- give them the note and expect to get change for the difference?

How does the note finally get settled?

[Shoonra]

Unlike most of you, I actually bothered to look up the law. Anderson on the Uniform Commercial Code has some very clear statements on UCC 3-603 (revised):

Tender of payment means (a) the full amount due, and (b) either in legal tender or something that will be readily and unconditionally converted into legal tender (unless the parties agreed on something other than money for payment).

The proposal of a partial payment or some future payment is not an adequate tender of payment.


In particular, referring to the beginning of this thread, the case of Fleet Real Estate Funding Corp. v. Frampton (Okl.App 1991) 812 P2d 416, 15 UCC Rptg Serv.2d 987, the offer of a promissory note was not a tender of payment as it was merely an attempt to substitute a new debt for an old debt.

[dreloc]

Can a BOE be converted?.....either in legal tender or something that will be readily and unconditionally converted into legal tender... I think so...


The proposal of a partial payment or some future payment is not an adequate tender of payment.....

You can use them now since we are out of BK...

You are right you cannot pay a debt with a debt....FRN'S "private" to pay your mortgage "public"??? you are mixing public funds and private funds...You need to Pay a public debt with public funds..thats just one mistake we are making...I can go into detail about this later in another conversation.

[Shoonra]

I don't know what "out of BK" means, but federal law says that FRNs are "legal tender" and used to pay taxes, fees, and fines. The UCC actually permits a creditor to insist on payment in legal tender rather than by check, credit card, or some other instrument.

The notion that FRNs are, themselves, debts rather than legal tender is simply wrong -- at least in law (an economist might think that way).

One of the easiest ways to prove this is to offer someone like DiM a choice between the very sort of homebrew BoE that he has advocated or FRNs in payment for something he's selling.

[dreloc]

BK -Bankruptcy 1933-2007= 74 we have been out of BK for 4 years that is why they are going to collapse the dollar and put us on a new system... so you need to get as many BOE's out as possible.


But I see where the mix-up is the only way I see a BOE working against your trust account is if "Credit" or in other words "theft" was issued.... I never used a BOE go out and buy a car.....That does not make since to me.

[Extramural]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

Unlike most of you, I actually bothered to look up the law. Anderson on the Uniform Commercial Code has some very clear statements on UCC 3-603 (revised):

Tender of payment means (a) the full amount due, and (b) either in legal tender or something that will be readily and unconditionally converted into legal tender (unless the parties agreed on something other than money for payment).

The proposal of a partial payment or some future payment is not an adequate tender of payment.


In particular, referring to the beginning of this thread, the case of Fleet Real Estate Funding Corp. v. Frampton (Okl.App 1991) 812 P2d 416, 15 UCC Rptg Serv.2d 987, the offer of a promissory note was not a tender of payment as it was merely an attempt to substitute a new debt for an old debt.

Bernie,

3-104. Negotiable instrument.
(a) Except as provided in subsections (c) and (d) of this section, "negotiable instrument" means an unconditional promise or order to pay a fixed amount of money, with or without interest or other charges described in the promise or order, if it:
(1) Is payable to bearer or to order at the time it is issued or first comes into possession of a holder;
(2) Is payable on demand or at a definite time; and
(3) Does not state any other undertaking or instruction by the person promising or ordering payment to do any act in addition to the payment of money, but the promise or order may contain (i) an undertaking or power to give, maintain, or protect collateral to secure payment, (ii) an authorization or power to the holder to confess judgment or realize on or dispose of collateral, or (iii) a waiver of the benefit of any law intended for the advantage or protection of an obligor.

IF they will take a check, they will take a note. One just has to know how to make the note.

I didn't make this up. The above section is straight from the UCC.

Now, that doesn't mean I expect a court to actually rule correctly based on what the code says.

Further, the UCC defines MONEY as such:

"Money" means a medium of exchange authorized or adopted by a domestic or foreign government and includes a monetary unit of account established by an intergovernmental organization or by an agreement between two or more nations.

[robhalford88]

Originally Posted by KarenM

If someone owed you money, would you accept such a note?

When the note came due, would you let it be closed out with another promissory note?

In the mean while, how do you pay your grocery bill -- give them the note and expect to get change for the difference?

How does the note finally get settled?

If I knew how to process the BOE or promissory note I would take it. That is why you should tell the creditor how to do that.

Originally Posted by Shoonra

Unlike most of you, I actually bothered to look up the law. Anderson on the Uniform Commercial Code has some very clear statements on UCC 3-603 (revised):

Tender of payment means (a) the full amount due, and (b) either in legal tender or something that will be readily and unconditionally converted into legal tender (unless the parties agreed on something other than money for payment).

The proposal of a partial payment or some future payment is not an adequate tender of payment.


In particular, referring to the beginning of this thread, the case of Fleet Real Estate Funding Corp. v. Frampton (Okl.App 1991) 812 P2d 416, 15 UCC Rptg Serv.2d 987, the offer of a promissory note was not a tender of payment as it was merely an attempt to substitute a new debt for an old debt.

So you don't think a promissory note or BOE can be converted then? I know of people who have done that.

Originally Posted by Shoonra

I don't know what "out of BK" means, but federal law says that FRNs are "legal tender" and used to pay taxes, fees, and fines. The UCC actually permits a creditor to insist on payment in legal tender rather than by check, credit card, or some other instrument.

The notion that FRNs are, themselves, debts rather than legal tender is simply wrong -- at least in law (an economist might think that way).

One of the easiest ways to prove this is to offer someone like DiM a choice between the very sort of homebrew BoE that he has advocated or FRNs in payment for something he's selling.

Who cares what the law says? If they are bearing debt, then an FRN is a debt instrument.

[aksis]

Originally Posted by KarenM

If someone owed you money, would you accept such a note?

When the note came due, would you let it be closed out with another promissory note?

In the mean while, how do you pay your grocery bill -- give them the note and expect to get change for the difference?

How does the note finally get settled?

Good questions. How does a Federal Reserve Note finaly get settled?


Sincerely,

Christopher Theodore: Rhodes

[Shoonra]

However anyone wants to continue to quibble about this, DiM's original statement that the refusal to accept a tender of payment (and, in DiM's description, not really a tender but a dubious proposal of something other than full and immediate payment) somehow erases the debt itself is explicitly rejected by Anderson and the cases he cites. I would expect the same from cases in the UCC Reporting Service and other authorities if I bothered chasing down this nonsense.