Returned BOE

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by dorkenbutt

You like to use the term real money allot. Black's defines what real money is. Tell me, is legal tender included in the definition?

Real money. Money which has real metallic, intrinsic value as distinguished from paper currency, checks and drafts. Black's 6th, page 1264.

That is more unrealistic than Shoonra's resorting to the UCC for a definition. It behooves us in reality to adhere to the Supreme Court's express opinion that only Congress, by the Constitution can and in fact has defined "lawful money". Otherwise Dorkenbutt, you are simply stuck back pre-1861.


Regards,

David Merrill.

[Shoonra]

The Official Comment to UCC 1-204(24), which defines "money", clearly states FRNs are money within the definition.

See, for example, J.M. Zitter, What constitututes "money" within the meaning of the UCC. 40 ALR4th 346 (1985)

Efforts by scofflaws to argue that FRNs are not money (or "lawful money" - although that expressison is not used in the income tax laws or the UCC) have been repeatedly shot down in court.

[Shoonra]

Originally Posted by dorkenbutt

You like to use the term real money allot. Black's defines what real money is. Tell me, is legal tender included in the definition?
Real money. Money which has real metallic, intrinsic value as distinguished from paper currency, checks and drafts. Black's 6th, page 1264.

Cute. You left out the second half of the definition: "Current cash, as opposed to money on account."

Federal law states that FRNs are accepted (along with other forms of metallic and paper currency issued by the US Treeasury) for taxes, fines and fees. Ultimately real money comes down to what the govt wants to be paid.

[dorkenbutt]

Sorry Shoonra, you got the complete definition from Black's 6th. There is no second half. You're a librarian and cannot read English?

MONEY. In usual and ordinary acceptation it means gold, silver, or paper money used as circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidence of debt, or other personal or real estate. Black's 4th page 1157, Black's 6th page1005

Tell me Shoonra, what are Federal Reserve Notes? And are they not evidence of debt (obligations)? Again, see Title 18 USC § 8 and Title 12 USC § 411.

My, my, still no definition of money that includes legal tender!"

[Extramural]

Originally Posted by dorkenbutt

Sorry Shoonra, you got the complete definition from Black's 6th. There is no second half. You're a librarian and cannot read English?

MONEY. In usual and ordinary acceptation it means gold, silver, or paper money used as circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidence of debt, or other personal or real estate. Black's 4th page 1157, Black's 6th page1005

Tell me Shoonra, what are Federal Reserve Notes? And are they not evidence of debt (obligations)? Again, see Title 18 USC § 8 and Title 12 USC § 411.

My, my, still no definition of money that includes legal tender!"

The attached pic is from my Black's 6th abridged.

[robhalford88]

Originally Posted by jcsmjd

If US is bankrupt, please enlighten and inform who are the creditors and/or surety? Surely a bankrupt entity and/or its issue is without the ability to issue credit. I am trying to grasp what you mean by: "in the US".

The creditors are the owners of the so called federal reserve and the surety is the citizens.
The gov doesn't issue the credit, the fed, being the creditors allows them to extend the liability.

Is is possible for a creditor to also be "in the US"? Who is making the loans to the UNITED STATES, INC? [Creditor]

Same as above.

If men and women, on the lands commonly referred to by the US, are making loans, cannot the creditor just correct the books by zeroing out the debt?

That is EXACTLY what the BOE does. It is called an offset and adjustment.

I only ask questions, I make no claims.

Thank you.

jcsmjd

Originally Posted by Shoonra

I had supposed that you were accustommed to genderbending ever since (if not before) your prison term. In any case it didn't affect the validity of my answers. And you seem incapable of learning from what I say anyway.

You truly are a lawyer. You are a nasty piece of trash.

By the way, none of us will learn from what you say, we KNOW that you are a liar and fraud.

[dorkenbutt]

Thanks for the pic. Yeah my Black's 6th removed the words gold and silver from the definition. It is interesting that Black's 4th has the words silver and gold in the definition.

[Shoonra]

Originally Posted by Extramural

The attached pic is from my Black's 6th abridged.

I not going to quibble about an abridged dictionary. I found the second half of the definition in Black's Law Dictionary, 8th ed., s.v. Money; real money.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by dorkenbutt

Thanks for the pic. Yeah my Black's 6th removed the words gold and silver from the definition. It is interesting that Black's 4th has the words silver and gold in the definition.

Here is where the definition for lawful money changed; in 1934 as expected.


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...1----000-.html

In the Notes:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...000-notes.html

See it there? Attached is how it read prior to the gold seizure in America.

However the definition for lawful money in the US Code was not repealed until 1994; during the upsurge in Shoonra's Patriot Movement:

http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/f...20%20%20%20%20

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...1----000-.html

There are two shell games going on here - aside from Shoonra's antics, anyway. Federal Reserve Bank Notes were replaced as stock certificates in the Federal Reserve (private corporation) in 1945 by Federal Reserve Notes. And in 1971 US Notes, still in circulation, were replaced in form by FRNs. To redeem lawful money today, typically because of the TIN, SSN or EIN relationship to gain employment in the first place, one simply non-endorses their paychecks and that redeems lawful money - US notes in the form of FRNs.

If you want to quibble about gold and silver, then you are right where Shoonra and the Fed want you. Look at items 11 and 12:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-07-30.pdf

And look here; even the courts (Shoonra's brothels) support that in the early '70s one was entitled to redeem lawful money - just not in gold or silver coin.

http://friends-n-family-research.inf...ney_case_1.jpg
http://friends-n-family-research.inf...ney_case_2.jpg



Regards,

David Merrill.


P.S.

You truly are a lawyer. You are a nasty piece of trash.

By the way, none of us will learn from what you say, we KNOW that you are a liar and fraud.

I have learned a lot from Shoonra - mainly by accepting the first premise.

http://www.suijuris.net/forum/106610-post62.html
Shoonra falsifying

[Shoonra]

The fact remains: DiM's advice at the beginning of this thread is bogus. A BoE is not a tender of payment and the refusal of a tender of payment does not erase the underlying debt.