Constantine

[Jerseee]

Weis, HB, Iamfree, Gregtu, and All,

I highly recommend you see the movie "Constantine".

We can discuss it later after you have seen it.

[seeker]

Took it in last night. Awesome

Seeker

[weasel]

so, describe a bit of what happens the movie. I haven't seen it yet, kinda skeptical, would like a bit more insight.

[suijuris]

I saw it and have to say I was not very impressed.

Not unlike the catholic religion, this movies creators' seem to make up the rules as they went.

The underlying theme that suicide is an unforgivable sin committed years earlier by our hero, who died but was somehow rejected by hell and now battles with demons in an attempt to buy entrance to heaven in the afterlife.

In the end, he makes a deal with the devil by offering some information beneficial to the devil. The devil gets the information and the the (already damned) soul of our hero in return for sending the hero's friend's twin sister's soul to heaven... (she was also damned to hell for committing suicide)

In this movie, the devil is portrayed as having the power to grant atonement and transfer the souls of the damned off to heaven at his whim.

All the powers our hero has over the demons seemed to be portrayed as deriving from use of symbols, rituals, murmuring Latin phrases, etc., and not from a divine source in which the hero had any faith.

Are the creators of this movie implying that god and the devil are one?

[iamfreeru2]

If the movie is as SJ has described it, I will not be seeing this movie. There are many movies I do not wish to see because of the content. I am very selective about my movie viewing. Thanks SJ for giving me a heads up on this one.

[seeker]

The graphics were pretty awesome and the underlying current of 'all is not what it seems' was a bit surprising.
I think it was not so much that the devil had the power to grant attonement as it was that he could reject a soul (without cause??) if he so chose. I also disagree that the reason the devil granted our hero the final victory was not in exchange for information, but for the favor of keeping the 'balance' as it were, and continue to reign in his own right among the less savory on the Earth while allowing God to keep his piece of the action as well. I was surprised that the emphasis seemed to be on Hell and the Devil as opposed to the usually God rules stuff .. but I found it to be a refreshing change of pace from the whole wrath of God image. Here, although our hero prays to God for "a little help here!", he is visited by the Devil -- now the question becomes, Was that the 'little help' he sought from God's hand? Was God intervening by sending the Devil to take the matter in hand (since it was his progeny that was attempting to create chaos, and upset the balance that was repeatedly refered to through the movie, albeit with a very unexpect ally)? I think there was a lot more going on in this movie than the initial layer, and I would encourage others to see it and look at the subcurrents and plots as well as the surface presentation. Since I have been listening to Jack Smith's movie reviews as they relate to government,etc., I tend to look beyond the presentation to ask, What is this movie telling us? In this case, it just may be ... redemption is ALWAYS available, even when you think you're damned forever, and everything is not what it appears to be, and finally, sometimes even those you are absolutely certain are the good guys, aren't. Help and redemption come from unlikely sources, even formerly damned, chain-smoking every day men. And sometimes, unselfish sacrifice does have it's rewards -- it's the act of self-less-ness that will truly set you free.

I plan to see it again (it helps that your kid is the manager at the theater! perks!) -- there was so much going on and it moved som quickly that I am sure there was much more that I missed. Good escape for an a couple hours.

Seeker

[Jerseee]

I am in agreement with seeker.

there is much more than good versus evil in this movie.

Iamfree, I highly suggest that you (in particular) see this movie. This is not an attempt to sway you in whatever you believe. But I truly believe that this has some connection to redemption just as seeker said. that is why I want you to see this movie. Moreover, do not judge too hastily because of what SJ said. Even if you don't see it now, you should see it nonetheless--very insightful.

The fact that Gabriel tried to force humans to make a choice by unleashing Memnon (the devil's son) is similiar to the system we have today. For example, the big thing now is Terrorists. The demons in the movie could be construed as such. Gabriel taking matters into her own hands to force humans to either repent or lose salvation is just like your homey George Bush saying, "you are either with us or the terrorists." Forcing folks to make a choice between 2 evils.

Also a good point in the movie was the fact that Gabriel told Constantine that just because he "knew" about salvation is not enough---he had to believe in it and make those sacrifices necessary to support that belief. Just as Iamfree does with redemption and his faith. He makes those necessary sacrifices because he believes in what he does and the word.

Plus, there is redemption in the most unlikely of places. The issue that the devil made about saving Constantine's life versus him going to heaven is redemption in itself. the devil wanted Constatine's soul so bad that he was willing to wager that Constantine would revert back to living less than honorable. But what I did not understand was why was the devil's feet covered in tar and he wore a white suit?

Seeker,

Constantine did what he did so that the devil would come personally to get him and since the devil was the only one would could release souls from his bondage--he could in fact make a deal with the devil. But the devil forgot about the sacrifice. Constantine made the devil an offer that the devil really didn't need to make. He could have kept both souls. I think that shows a side of the devil as being reasonable? What do you think?

There is so much going on that you do have to see it twice and not get caught up in the graphics and special effects or you'll miss something really good.

Iamfree, it is just my opinion that you see it, but when or if you do decide to see it, please keep an open mind so that you do not miss something really good. It is not a challenge to your faith--it is an enhancement of your critical reading and listening skills. Nothing should be able to sway your faith so it should not be such an issue to see it. I hope you see it, I'd like to hear your take on it and how it matches or does not match up with UCC redemption.

have fun--please keep in mind that its just a movie.

[seeker]

Jerseee;

Some thoughts on your questions -- the Tar -- remember when he thrust his hands into Constantine -- and they came out covered in tar? Thereby taking his disease out of him and giving him another chance at life (and hopefully screwing up??) I thought perhaps it signified the sin and disease the Devil resides in -- kind of like the mire of the court system? And the white suit was a clever play to remind us that he was once one of God's chosen -- as the united States was once sovereign, strong and answerable to it's Citizens, but has fallen into 'disease'.... just some thoughts .. for your consideration.

I think that perhaps the devil accepting the trade shows that he believes, still, in the balance of good/evil (or he would not have stopped Gabriel); that he knows that 'rules' need to be followed even though they have been largely unwritten for centuries (hmmm?) and that by acting honorably (yeah, the Devil!), he bows to the human will -- even as he attempts to influence it in his favor. I'll let ya know if this changes when I see it again -- hopefully tomorrow.

Also, the point when Constantine realizes he must act against himself and finally lets us know what those funky tats on his arms have to do with anything!~ Awesome!! He literally calls the unseen force to himself! How about that car crash at the beginning? Jump a little? Lots of action, to say the least.


Iamfree- I too believe you should see this -- the reversal is surprising, as I said. God doesn't make an 'appearance' if you will except through Gabriel -- and the ending, though none of us have said anything (Jerseee, SJ, did you stay until AFTER the credits to see the end?!?!) Was a definite signal that deep believe, selfless sacrifice and willingness to stand by your fellow man will be rewarded by the Almighty. If you guys didn't see it, let me know. I'll clue ya. More movies are doing that these days -- don't leave till the screen goes black!

Seeker

[TheBlackTruth]

From an artistic perspective, the movie was quite entertaining, visually stimulating and interesting. Sure, they made up the rules as they went along, but such is surely the prerogative of any author of fiction. Is it not?

From a spirtual, religious and Christian perspective, my attitude changes dramatically.

Not unlike other hollywood enactments of this great controversy, the Catholic church is presented as this stalwart pillar of righteousness standing alone against the powers of evil with weaponry borne of mysticism and down-right idolotry, all under the pretense of Christian origins.

This movie, like others I've seen dealing with this subject-matter, attempts to perpatrate a great fraud on it's viewers by presenting the supernatural as a world governed by rules that we as humans can manipulate, even as a means of triumph over evil in the supernatural realm. This is preposterous, arrogant and dangerous.

Instead of the controversy being between good and evil, what we see on screen is a contrived battle betwix evil and evil clothed as good. The fraud is perpetrated when the viewer believes the evil clothed as good is good. . .and therein lies the danger. It is a trap.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that count darkness as light, and light as darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:19-21)

I have more to say, but I will leave it here for rebuttals before this turns into a rant ;)

-BT

p.s. Seeker, I did see the very ending - at your suggestion.

[Jerseee]

BT,

Great view and review. But couldn't you insert any ole religion into that script?

I mean, to harp on christianity and catholicism just because it was outlined in the movie could be a distraction from what (I believe) is the essence of the movie.

One of my thoughts on this is that redemption can come from the most unlikely of places.

Further, most of the things in the movie can be substituted with government, daily relationships, money, etc...

And for the record BT......I enjoy your rants, I just don't like it when you rant without a soap box to sit on! ;-)