Req'd to withhold Child support???

[juststartingout]

I imagine this is along the lines of the tax code...

We supposedly have a CONTRACTOR that owes on child support. State has come knocking on our door demanding that we withhold. We said no way - he is not an employee! THey said it doesn't matter - we have to anyway. (still researching that one). Is it "voluntary" for an employer to be withholding child support just like with withholding taxes?

[weishaupt1776]

I would stipulate that you are afraid of the contractor filing suit against you for being negligent

Demand the law which they are relying on. Also look up your STATE garnishment laws.

Most likely it will state a court order is necessary

Ask if the law they are relying on supercedes the necessity for a court order.

Ask for the law which supercedes state garnishment laws

Also ask where the duty was created for you to be a witholding agent.
Ask when, where, and how the duty was created and when you agreed to be such.
Ask for the delegation of authority that agent has to conduct such an operation, because you are not sure if you are dealing with the right person & are in fear of getting sued for negligence & breach of fiduciary duty.

Then back up those inquiries w/ affidavit invoking the doctrine of estoppel by acquiescence meaning that if they do not provide answers or refute your affidavit point by point referenceing by affirmation #'s, they acquiesce to all affirmations and admit that they can no longer proceed.

Send registered, restrictede addressed to the person in charge.

Here is a snippet from Clyde Hyde regarding this:

• f you are a corporation producing widgets and the court orders you out of a clear blue sky*without you being involved in any kind of suit, to make ingots instead of widgets are you obliged to then start making ingots?
  *
  Now, lets say the court enjoins you in a suit where there is a complaint that making widgets is against the code and if you want to continue in business you are ordered to make ingots instead, then you may have a duty to do it.* You have to be a party to suit to be ordered by a judge.* You have to have due process, this is not due process, he hasn't been given a meaningful hearing and a right to be heard, even if he is a corporation.
  *
  The order is meaningless, it is not enforceable without him being joined in the suit.* That is the brand of a dictatorship and most employers just do it like it was a duty.* That is fine if you get a tax break for doing it, but otherwise it is akin to slavery at its worst.* I know a case where this happened, we sent*a motion to dismiss to the court because there was no due process, in this case it was remote and out of the state, and the case was dismissed and nothing ever happened.* In this case the man was invited to join in the case but because of distance couldn't.* They refused to withhold from his pay and nothing ever happened.* In this case it was a partnership but it doesn't really matter, and the matter was out of state as well which made it harder for the court to press the issue.
  *
  It was also a case where the woman married the man just to get pregnant them split and claimed welfare.* It turned out good for her because it was twins.* However, he plan didn't work and the state of Arizona ate it.

[rushpat]

Yes, ask for the state law requiring it be done, and if a court order is required. Tell them that this is for your own legal protection.

[weishaupt1776]

The whole thing is that they are operating on fraud check your state's statute of frauds--SoF--- & see which one's line up. The whole thing is reliance.
Ask them if they are expecting you to rely on their representation of this as a valid, lawful, properly delegated order. Ask for the specific deleg ord #

Here's some cases to show why you need to know so you are not hit w/negligence.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/Authority.htm

the federal crop vs merrill is imperative!!!!

say you are not prepared to take that risk as listed in the case

If they file suit, serve them w/subpoena & invoke the SoF so you can ask leading questions

Alright back to the yard before High noon hits this Florida republic[/b]

[juststartingout]

I dug into the State law and it says that I am required to pay, even though he is not an employee. In the definitions under the pertaining section, it lists independent contractors as payors.

518.6111 Subdv 1.
(b) "Payor of funds" means any person or entity that provides funds to an obligor, including an employer as defined under chapter 24 of the Internal Revenue Code, section 3401(d), an independent contractor, payor of worker's compensation benefits or unemployment benefits, or a financial institution as defined in section 13B.06.

The contractor has not come asking for it to be withheld - it is the State.

The law also says that all the state has to do is issue a notice that we are to withhold and that is all that is needed. No issue by any judge or anything.

518.6111
Subd. 5. Payor of funds responsibilities. (a) An order for or notice of withholding is binding on a payor of funds upon receipt.

Oh, and this is so sweet of them to add this:
(f) A payor of funds may deduct one dollar from the obligor's remaining salary for each payment made pursuant to an order for or notice of withholding under this section to cover the expenses of withholding.

[weishaupt1776]

Ahhh, but did you look up the def of the word employer in 3401?

Also look up the word "withholding agent" on the irs website or in the code

However, I would watch out making the code the main part of the pleadings, because they twist it around sometimes

go to google & type this out EXACTLY:

site:irs.gov "withholding agent"

[juststartingout]

Thanks.

I will look into the withholding agent stuff... but isn't it different? It is the state and not the IRS I am dealing with. How does the IRS stuff apply? This is child support and not tax issues. That's why I didn't look up the def for employer in 3401 - also because we fit under independent contractor. (but that doesn't even make sense to me though because HE is OUR ind. contractor)