Followers of Jesus. Bound to Obey Torah?

[cigs645]

Originally Posted by jdogpupil

David Merrill, you posted some fairly interesting commentary on Paul the Apostle. Virgin Birth? New Birth? As if Paul downplayed the significance of the Hebrew Torah? The man was a pharisee, so that last one doesn't hold water. I encourage you to review Hebrew writings a little more.

good point.

Paul was a Pharissee. According to Acts 22:3, Paul studied in Jerusalem under the Rabbi Gamaliel a well known teacher in Paul's time.

To the Torah and to the Testimony! If they do not speak in agreement with this word, they have no light..." (Isaiah 8:20)


But this shall be the covenant that I will make: I will write my law in their inward parts... and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. I will forgive their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more..." (Jeremiah 31).

Heb 4:10 This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by jdogpupil

David Merrill, you posted some fairly interesting commentary on Paul the Apostle. Virgin Birth? New Birth? As if Paul downplayed the significance of the Hebrew Torah? The man was a pharisee, so that last one doesn't hold water. I encourage you to review Hebrew writings a little more.

You read his many letters now canonized and you think he failed to downplay the significance of the Hebrew Torah? Of course he downplayed the importance of the law; he was pandering a rumor of a Resurrection to the pagans in his home of birth. The pagans were looking for a confirmation that people could be resurrected and born of virgins and he gave them what they were looking for.

However, it was using a large part of the alms meant for the missionary widows back in Jerusalem to buy his Roman citizenship - even having a Roman citizenship that really got the Jews (Pharisee or not) angry with Paul. The tainting of the Torah was only a reason to expel him from the synagogues; the latter was an embezzlement to buy into treacherous league with the Roman occupation of Israel. The latter is the reason he had to run to the Romans for safehousing in jail. James the Just and the other Jewish rabbis were out to kill the traitor/heretic.



Regards,

David Merrill.


P.S. Funny that if he really believed what he taught from Rome with the Epistles, he would have faced down the rabbis with the truth about Jesus instead of hiding in the jails of Felix for two years before finally convincing Felix to remand him to Rome. The actions of a man who has faith in the power of salvation in the name of Jesus Christ would not fear death so. But the actions speak a completely different story about a craven and lying Paul.

[reverse the curse]

There are two types of covenants (contracts) that God makes in the Bible. They are contrasted as follows: 1)CONDITIONAL-man must perform some task, obey or disobey for this covenant to be in operation. Examples of conditional covenants :
Adamic Covenant Gen 2:15, 3:10, 14-20 Mosaic Covenant Ex 19:5
2)UNCONDITIONAL- Man is the recipient of Gods promises. God fulfills HIs promises unconditionally to man. Gen 12: 1-3 Jerimiah: 31: 31-37 Examples of unconditional covenants are : Noahic Cov Gen 6: 17-18
Abrahamic Cov Gen 12: 1-3 Palestinian Cov Gen 15: 18-21 , Nu 34:1-12 Davidic Cov Gen 17:6 Psalm 89:35-37 Psalm 105:8-11

The Mosaic Covenant is called the Old covenant,was a temporary covenant Heb 8: 8-13. Very important: this covenant was made with the Jewish people. Jer 31:32. It was dedicated with the blood of animals. Was weak and faulty. Was rooted upon the promises of the people and used temporary earthly mediators. This covenant could not take away sins. hev 10:4 Was written on tables of stone. Ex 24:12 . It was written to a people awaiting the Messiah. Deut 18:18


The Newer Covenant, Jer 31: 31-37 Called the newer covenant.. 2 Cor 3:2-12
Called the better covenant. Heb 7:18-22
An everlasting covenant Jer 31:31-35
Made for ALL PEOPLE OF FAITH (JEWS AND GENTILES) Rom 3:28-30 It was ratified by the blood of Messiah, not the blood of animals.. 1 Peter1:18-25......has an ETERNAL Mediator Heb13: 22-28 .......completely deals with sin Heb 10:7-17.........and is written on our hearts FOREVER Ez36:24 Jer 33:14-26...........Allows us to experience Messiah Yeshua personally........have a relationship with the Holy One of Israel, not wait on Him. Jn 14: 23-24 17: 6-8.

Now having understood this, why would the Gentile followers of Messiah Yeshua (Jesus) place themselves under the law which was given to the Jews?
The law is Holy and Perfect and we are neither Holy nor perfect on our own merit. The law shows us our SIN and our need for the Savior. Grace is indeed the better way.. Those who chose to place themselves under the Law have never experienced the love and grace offered by a loving God. Stop trying to live by a system that was in place temporarily and come into the light of Messiah and His unconditional love. Its time to stop being a Pharise and get a change like Paul did , get the new birth and the new heart that goes with it.. happy new year.

[charlesa6]

reverse the curse, welcome to the suijuris forum. Thanks for the finding.

[reverse the curse]

GRACE= Gods righteousness at Christs expense. Consider the cost of the blood of Messiah shed for you. Think of what He has done for you, child of God. He has bought you with a price, and you are forgiven once and for all. Old things have passed away and all things are made new in Him. This is the new life in Christ. Messiah Yeshua has set before you life and death. Choose life. He will give you eternal life if you place your trust in Him. Your idenity is sealed in Jesus when you are His child... you are not your flesh, you are dead to sin and alive to Christ. That is what grace is all about. He takes your fear, guilt and shame and gives you His peace, joy and love and a heart that is able to serve God 24/7. The new person you become in Him has the law written on your heart, not on a tablet of stone. Its promised to you in Jer 31:31-34. Right in the older covenant, you will find the promise of the newer covenant........the invitation stands even today.

[elyakatz]

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