The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

[Logan]

Originally Posted by fuzzi

I have a question for Logan:

I have read that Joseph Smith was given the book of Mormon from an angel:


If this is correct, how do you reconcile that to Galatians 1:8 and 9?

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

Hello Fuzzi, Welcome to the group.

The Book of Galatians, as you know, was the Epistle unto the Galatian Gentiles as delivered by Paul. I think it is important to read the entire chapter to gain a better understanding of this verse in context.

According to Paul, he has received direct revelation from Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father who raised him from the dead and sent him on a task to preach the fulness of the Lords gospel upon the Gentiles in Galatia.

It is interesting to note in this scripture that Paul is speaking about the Lords gospel as the ultimate gospel and that they had people amongst them that have deviated and perverted his truth somehow from that pure gospel and needed to be reminded of the error of that action.

Keep in mind that at that time, the fulness of Gods plan and instruction were yet still on the earth. This was before the Apostasy, when it and the authority to administer Gods priesthood was removed from the earth.

This gospel that Paul warns others of deviating from is the same gospel which was restored unto Joseph Smith when he asked in humble prayer, "Father, which church should I join?".
It must have been terribly frustrating to Joseph as an unschooled youth to have been faced with so many offers to join a church, like so many telemarketers, and realize that all of them disagreed about the correct interpretation of the abridged books of the Bible.

Now the Father and the Son knew that the fulness of the gospel needed to be returned to the children of men and Heavenly Father bestowed that honor onto Joseph Smith and caused that he should translate the writings of the plates, the writings of the lost tribes of Israel, and spread that unaltered word to all the world.

Great question!

Logan

[charlesa6]

Originally Posted by fuzzi

Thank you!

I know it's offtopic, but I'd like to ask anyway: which Eastwood movie is your avatar from?

This is my all time favorite, and one and only. "Good-Bad-Ugly". Now you have it.

[Rocketman]

Thanks Logan. I have read many of your posts and enjoy your wisdom and knowledge. Thanks again. I also enjoyed your post to Fuzzi. The answer, like you said, is that it is the same gospel of Jesus Christ.

[weishaupt1776]

The gospel is in my sig line, plus nothing minus nothing

Either one trusts The Gospel according to only just 1 Cor 15:1-4 or they trust in their own works, merit, or acheivement rather than Christs FINISHED WORK on the Cross

There is no DMZ

Either Christ was lying when he said "It is finished" or he wasn't

P.S.
The thief on the cross wasn't baptized

[Rocketman]

I hear you. I too believe that Christ finished His work on the cross. He wasn't lying. I also believe 1 Cor 15:1-4. I am not sure that I am interpreting it the same though. The scripture makes some general reference to the gospel that Paul had taught them...the specifics are not mentioned except that Christ died for our sins and rose the 3rd day. I believe that Christ died for my sins and your sins as well, but that it is conditional depending on whether we take Christ as our Savior, repent of our sins (like it says in Acts 2:38), get baptized, and follow His example. I believe that Christ was telling the thief that they would see each other in the spirit world (paradise in Luke 23:43). Weis, how do you interpret 1 Cor 15 :40-42? I believe that it is talking about our reward after the resurrection (which I do believe is a universal gift just for being born). We will receive a reward after the resurrection according to what we did on the earth with our time. What grace did we receive from Him? What about 1 Cor 15:29? It says even the dead people need baptism...LDS do that in the temples. Although we may disagree on the Bible, I view all believers as allies.

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by Rocketman

but that it is conditional depending on whether we take Christ as our Savior, repent of our sins (like it says in Acts 2:38), get baptized, and follow His example.

I will re-read the I cor:40

Taking christ as our savior is definitely belief

repenting and being baptized was Israel's KINGDOM gospel entrusted with the 12 apostles

The gospel in 1 Cor 15:1-4 is the GENTILES' GRACE gospel which was only allowed to be preached by Paul and Barnabas

Here is an exhaustive analysis of this premise
http://www.suijuris.net/forum/religi...ghlight=gospel

Reply to me in that thread if you find anything you would wish to discuss regarding the idea of 2 gospels

[Rocketman]

Weis, that was quite a treatise on two gospels. You have quite a knowledge of the New Testament. We will have to part beliefs on that point, however, because I believe that the correct interpretation was that there was one gospel for both Jew and gentile and it was supposed to go to the Jews first and the gentiles second. It dates back to the covenant that God made with Abraham that through his posterity the people of the earth would be blessed (Abraham 2:9 in the Pearl of Great Price, a scripture that you probably don't recognize...I apologize for using it, but it talks to the point I'm making; additionally P of GP was a translation of some Egyptian papyrus by Joseph Smith). My premise earlier in this thread was that there was an apostasy (loss of authority to act for God), led to the dark ages (and loss of scripture) and a restoration occurred with Joseph Smith. So instead of trying to figure out the gospel based on the New Testament alone, the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price and the Doctrine and Covenants (three scriptural volumes that were brought forth when the gospel was restored) along with a living prophet help me know what Jesus Christ's gospel is today. We believe that the same authority that existed in the New Testament times was restored in 1829-30 with the noted scriptures. We believe that God (Jesus Christ, the head of the church) is talking to His prophet (Amos 3:7) just like he did anciently. How do you and others view the need for this authority to be the true Church of Jesus Christ? The scriptures (New Testament) talk about the gift of the Holy Ghost and it's bestowal by laying on of hands by those with the authority. We believe that priesthood authority is on the earth today...previously lost when the apostles were killed.

Where does it say the thief was or was not baptized?

[reverse the curse]

One of the things the earliest believers had to struggle with was the mystery of the Church....no one saw it coming. Prior to that, God delt with people as Jews or as Gentiles (nations). Now God has a body of people who are His church composed of Jewish believers in Yeshua (Jesus) and Gentiles who have also come to faith. Now God deals with His church, and people who do not believe. The beauty of the Church (the body of Messiah) is that Jews and Gentiles have been made One in Him. The wall of seperation is torn down........come let us worship the King together in Spirit and in Truth. The thief was not baptised, he was on the cross at the same time he made a decision to trust Yeshua (Jesus). He was saved for sure!!! It shows you that we are saved by grace through faith, not of our works or by baptism. Baptism (mikvah) is an outward expression of an inward change (the circumcised heart) but is not necessary for salvation. The just shall live by faith, (not by works). Its Jesus plus nothing we can do, its only what He has done for us. Isiah pointed out that ALL OF OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS is filthy rags. Once you decide to follow Yeshua, He gives you the grace and the ability to serve Him with clean hands and a pure heart 24/7. Child of God, the grace of God is available to you, waiting for you to grasp it, so you can live without fear, guilt and shame and experience Gods joy, peace and love in its place....
Dont believe any other gospel......God spoke to us before through the prophets, but in the latter days, He spoke only thorugh His Son , dont believe it when someone tells you an angel gave them information. its just not true. The truth is that you can find grace and forgiveness only in Yeshua.........budda died still looking for the truth.....religion is not what God wants from us. He wants relationship and that is available only through the Messiah of Israel, Jesus.....

[reverse the curse]

To Rocketman, we were all dead in our sins and transgressions, that is why we needed to be born again.We were walking dead people, dead to God and to His life. When we decided to believe God (as opposed to believing in God) and taking Him at His Word, we experienced new life, being born of the Spirit. He has given us the Ruah Hakodesh, the holy spirit to live in us.That is Gods very spirit in us, we will have eternal life and never die, we are now dead to sin and alive to Christ (Yeshua). Baptism does not save, it is our faith in the Lord that saves us. Our sin had separated us from Him, but now we are joint heirs with Christ. When we meet with Him in glory we will receive our rewards, but we will cast them back to Him for we understand that without Him, we would not be there, we will worship Him forever and ever and give Him all the Glory. We are now alive to God, and dead to sin. We still live in these jars of clay , these earthen vessels, but that also will be replaced by a new body one day. (When we see Him, we will be like Him) We will be transformed!!! Glory to God, cant wait for that!!! No more suffering, no more sadness, no more aches or pains.

[Logan]

We were walking dead people, dead to God and to His life.

Welcome to the forum, reverse the curse,

I will respect your opinion but vehemently disagree with it.

According to the scriptures, I know that I lived in Heavenly Fathers presence in the premortal life, as we all did, and chose to receive a mortal body and dwell on this earth for a time in order to experience the opposite of what we knew in the spirit world and to continue in our progression, even as our mortal children wish to grow up and do great things, just as I did when I was young.

I find the concept of God seeing us as dead or as step-children totally subversive to the idea that we have independant value and are uniquely special. We are all Heavenly Fathers children and he loves us equally regardless of our sins and has done all this so we as children could hopefully experience joy.

Of course, in His infinite wisdom, he knew we would err.
The simple fact that we are in an imperfect realm with a childs understanding dictates that something will be damaged and therefore sin will occur. This is not the end however, we have only to choose repentance and that transgression is forgotten. Our elder brother in the Spirit World, Jesus, chose voluntarily to satisfy the universal laws of Justice AND Mercy by taking upon himself the price for all the unpaid sins of the world like our broker if you will. Now this arrangement necessitates that we now owe Him the duty of fulfilling our covenants at Baptism to keep his commandments, live righteously, serve our fellow man (works) and perform many selfless acts which he has commanded of us. (or you can pay the price of your sin yourself)

These admonishings come from the scriptures of the Jews and the scriptures of the lost tribes of Israel, along with some writings of Abraham and writings of Joseph Smith, which by the way, all coincide to form a better and clearer understanding of each other. Some finger pointers have told me, "your scripture contradicts mine".

That is false. We as Latter-Day Saints use the Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price, The Doctrine and Covenants and books and revelation received by modern Prophets.

God cannot see you as dead, you are his child. God would not leave you to live in darkness without modern day revelation or forsake you and allow Lucifers power to be supreme. All these acts would negate fairness and balance. At the very center of His plan, fairness and free agency must be supreme. We have the right and choice to live by His plan of salvation and find joy or live by Lucifers plan of spiritual totalitarianism and find misery.

I bear you my testimony to the truthfullness of the Book of Mormon and the restoration of Heavenly Father's true gospel through Joseph Smith. You can grow closer to God by following the teachings and instructions of His organization. I have found more logic and scientific alignment in His truth, I have found more peace and joy, I have found more peace of mind. I will witness to you and anyone reading, the people that transcibed the writings in the Book of Mormon paid the ultimate price to ensure that the record would survive and that the true authority to minister in Gods name would be restored after the apostacy.

There is a real good reason why the LDS church is growing to the tune of 14 million+ in only 170 years. There is fabulous knowledge of our importance in Heaven Fathers plan. We are not beings of dust with spirits made of his breath! We have unique significance and a path that will one day allow us to command the respect of the elements and create great things of our own to spread joy.

Can your philosophy encourage such apprehension?
I, for one, can not find the logic in worshiping for ever.
I would get bored really quickly just singing and worshiping and sitting for ever and ever.
I want to build, I want to create, I want to help others and attain the satisfaction that comes from a concerted effort and an acheivement that can be shared with all my fellow man.

For this reason, do I challenge you to read the Book of Mormon and cross reference its precepts with that of the Bible. If you accept that challenge I promise you, you will only find disagreements that reside in your own unwillingness to sacrifice certain mortal coils.
As your understanding grows through this study, you will find that the teachings of Catholism and the resulting Protestants faiths all revolve around a system of control, and a dictation by leaders led by earthly goals.

I grew so tired of the "I don't know" or the "I'm not sure" answer from these protestant leaders in my youth, as they all interpreted their Bibles differently and condemned the others interpretations.

In the LDS church, when I ask a question, there is an answer found in scripture. It may be difficult to understand at first, but through careful study and prayerful deliberation, I can attain an understanding of things which I knew before the vail. And this helps me to live a more productive and joyful life in that understanding and acheive a peace of the life to follow.

I hope you will accept my challenge to read the Book of Mormon. Its precepts can bring you closer to an understanding of Heavenly Fathers plan for us than any other work.

BTW, post your questions along the way, I will be happy to discuss them with you.

Logan