More than One Gospel

[weishaupt1776]

Did you know that there is more than 1 gospel?

http://www.matthewmcgee.org/2gospels.html

WARNING: This will definitely go against the grain from how you were taught

If your flesh starts to get all riled up, please read the article first and then i will be happy to respond so we can reason through the scriptures.

This teaching definitely clears up alot of alleged "contradictions" in the Bible

[BoyntonStu]

There are over 45,000 different Protestant 'sects' in the US.

One possibility is that there are many versions of 'The' Bible.

The are so many different translations/interpretations that there is no agreement of what 'The' Bible says.


BoyntonStu

[weishaupt1776]

Within the scope of this topic, which involves the Gospel of the Kingdom & the Gospel of Grace, have you noticed in the different Bibles/translations that those 2 are not mentioned & also that the supporting scriptures don't indicate it also in those Bibles?

I'll tell you one thing, this study would most likely piss off the 45,000 religions you mention

[BoyntonStu]

Gospel - something accepted as infallible truth.

We need to redefine our terms.

Perhaps: Gospel - something believed by some as infallible truth.

"I'll tell you one thing, this study would most likely piss off the 45,000 religions you mention"

Love Thy Neighbor? Turn the other cheek? ..... etc.

I suggest that you begin with the KJV and explain Unicorns (mentioned 6 times) before considering any other issue. In other words, infallible has no meaning in any realm that includes Unicorns,

That is a fact, not a theory.

I just learned that the Catholic Church required Galilleo to label his factual observation as a 'theory' . 450 years later they apologized. Will Evolution follow?

BoyntonStu

[Livefire]

Gospel....The greek word for this actually means "good news" not infallibility, altho the word of the Lord is as silver purified in a furnace 7 times.

As for the article Weis referred to....I would disagree on several points with that author. The author is clueless as to who "Israel" and who and what a true "Jew" is...if the sake of brevity all I will say is if you look as to where the gospel of the kingdom spread to after Yeshua's ascension, you will find true Israel. He that hath ears to hear let him hear this. One can also look at the second section of the Declaration of Arbroath of 1320 and read a rather astounding truth as to who are a part of the descendants of the diaspora.

The Word also declares that He (Yeshua) would received in the heavens til His enemies be made His footstool, all of the Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey books are nothing more than badly written fiction. The stone kingdom of Daniel will subdue the image of Babylon and become a mighty mountain (goverment) that shall fill the whole earth. Paul said we are seated together in heavenly place with Christ Jesus (Yeshua Ha Meschiach) and those that suffer with Him shall also be glorfied with Him. The only people that were taken out during the Deluge of Noah was the WICKED!!!!! If you use the year for a day formula found in Ezekiel, along with the FIRMLY set dates of the the Bablyonian exile and return, you will discover that the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel was completed at the time of Christ.....it was HE who confirmed the covenant for many and was cut off in the midst of the week....Jesus Himself declared the Temple and its Levitical priesthood to be desolate as He wept over Jerusalem!!! Why would Yahweh want to reestablish a Temple sacrifice as many rapturists say when Yeshua was sacrificed once and for all as the perfect Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world? Doesnt make sense.

As to Paul and Peter preaching different gospels, not true. They had different revelations to be sure but just as a diamond is many faceted so is understanding of the Most High. Peter and Paul acknowledged each other as colaborers in the gospel. I will say this, at the time of Pentecost, Peter spoke what He knew. Later on in I and II Peter, his writings are far different. If one wishes to see a different Gospel, do a study on Simon Magus, the REAL 1st pope or Pontifex Maximus of the Roman Catholic Church.

In closing, the many sects of "Christianity" one sees are due to a few different things...

1. Various levels of revelation given to the movements that birthed the denomination (i.e. Luther's saved by grace, not works. John Wesley's understanding of inward holiness et cetera) Not new gospels, just building upon past movements of the Holy Spirit....revelation ALWAYS confirms the foundation and then proceeds to build upon it. We just have to exercise discernment upon how we build upon it...Paul was a WISE masterbuilder.

2. Some movements are the result of factions or schisms in the ecclesia, these are not of the Spirit and will not bring forth good fruit. As a note you can find personal interpretations of Scripture among most any group, so again its a discernment thing.

3. Lastly, there is just plain old fashioned false teachers and preachers out there spewing forth demonically inspired trash and should be avoided!

Im not pissed at all, just trying to shed some light on the topic. BTW the term unicorn can refer to the rhinocerous also the term leviathan can mean dinosaur altho leviathan is also an ancient star constellation that God was referring to

QUOTE FOR THE DAY:

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, but the honor of kings to search it out!

[weishaupt1776]

[b]Paul makes it clear that the Gospel(good news) he preached by which someone is saved is the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Yeshua

• 1Cr 15:1**
  Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News . . .
  by which also you are saved, . . . that Messiah
  • 
    died for our sins . . .,
  • he was buried, . . .
  • raised on the third day

Reading further into those verses, Paul also makes mention that those who received it, stood firm, and did not believe in vain were saved when he preached it to them. So it is evident that his message was understood by some.

However, when Yeshua mentioned his Death, Burial, & Resurrection(Herein, "dbr"), the message was not even received or understood by the 12:

• Mat 16:21**
  From that time, Yeshua began to show his talmidim that he must go to Yerushalayim and suffer many things from the Zakenim, chief Kohanim, and Sofrim, and be killed, and the third day be raised up.
  
  Mat 16:22**
  Rock took him aside, and began to rebuke him, saying, "Far be it from you, Lord! This will never be done to you."

I don't know about you, but it shore don't sound like there's whole 'lot of receivin' and believin' the gospel of the dbr of Yeshua so far.

• Luk 18:31
  Then he took [unto him] the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
  Luk 18:32
  For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
  Luk 18:33
  And they shall scourge [him], and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
  Luk 18:34
  And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

So after years of preaching the gospel of the kingdom, they don't understand this one which Paul talked about later?

• Jhn 20:9
  For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

[b]But they were preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, which they did receive & understand well before Yeshua revealed the above to them.
This is the Gospel of the Kingdom:

• Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
  Mar 1:15
  And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel

.

And water baptism was connected to repentance in the Gospel Of The Kingdom by John the Baptist:

• Mar 1:4**
  Yochanan came immersing in the wilderness and preaching the immersion of repentance for forgiveness of sins.

And the following shows that the 12 were taugh a gospel which they did [u]receive[u] and understand because they were sent by Yeshua to go preach it:

• Mat 10:5
  These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
  Mat 10:6
  But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
  Mat 10:7
  And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

So this Gospel of the Kingdom was recorded as having been preached by Yeshua, John the Baptist, & the 12. But it was NOT INTENDED FOR GENTILES (goyim)

They are recorded as having spread the gospel of the kingdom, which would indicate that they understood what they were taking about.

But years later they hear about the dbr of Yeshua which they didn't understand and didn't know

But Paul refers to the dbr as the Gospel also, which people are saved by when they receive it.
Could it be that Paul's assignment was to the goyim(uncircumcision) and that the 12 were assigned to preach another gospel to the jews(circumcision) ?

• Gal 2:7
  But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcisionwas committed unto me(Paul), as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;
  
  Gal 2:8
  (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:
  
  Gal 2:9
  And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Wait, but go to verse 2:

• 
  Gal 2:2
  And I (Paul) went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

So there is a gospel preached among the gentiles by Paul (The DBR) & a Gospel preached by the Peter to the circumcision(except 'ole Corny) .(Repent & be baptized, the Kingdom is at hand, Yeshua is the King, etc. . .)

However, it is true that Peter and Paul did teach that Yeshua was the Son of God, that he was crucified, and that he rose from the dead on the third day.

But there was a difference:

Peter makes mention of the death of Yeshua to the Israelites in an accusatory manner

• Act 2:36**
  "Let all the house of Yisra'el therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Yeshua whom you crucified.""
  Act 2:38**
  Rock said to them, "Repent, and be immersed, everyone of you, in the name of Yeshua the Messiah for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Ruach HaKodesh.

Peter does not connect the Death on The Cross with the forgiveness and washing of sins like Paul does (except way later in Peter's Epistles)

• 
  Rom 3:25**
  whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God's forbearance;

Peter explained the dbr only as an accusatory historical record to the Israelites and his message was to repent and be baptized as an offer to still receive the King and His Kingdom

• Act 3:13
  The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied. . .
  But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer. .
  . . .killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead ; .
  And his name through faith in his name(not the dbr) hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
  . .Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out(not by his blood), when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; . . .
  And he shall send Jesus Christ(the promised King Redeemer),

Paul mos def clearly connected Christ's death w/ forgiveness

• 
  Gal 1:4**
  who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us out of this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father

There's almost 70 more references of this nature in Paul's epistles

Why was Paul rebuking the Galatians and Peter for regarding the propagation of a DIFFERENT GOSPEL?

• 
  Gal 1:6**
  I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Messiah [b]to a different Good News[b];

And Paul defends the fact that he received a revelation of this gospel directly from Yeshua:

• 
  Gal 1:11**
  But I make known to you, brothers, concerning the Good News which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
  
  Gal 1:12**
  For neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came to me through revelation of Yeshua the Messiah.

And we can't forget who he is sharing this revelation with:

• 
  Gal 2:2
  And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles

That "other gospel" was being propagated by Peter to the gentiles, who were supposed to be Paul's commission with his revealed gospel:

• 
  Gal 2:14
  But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Why does Paul refer to it as "my gospel"

• Rom 2:16
  In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel
  
  Rom 16:25
  Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, .

[weishaupt1776]

Well, remember I Cor 15, Paul's Gospel was the dbr of Yeshua as the good news of salvation, which was a mystery until revealed to him.
That gospel of the dbr was a mystery to the 12 for sure, but they were preaching a gospel years prior to that message for salvation.
How could they be preaching something that was kept secret from them for people to be saved?

Back to the mystery:

• 1Cr 2:7**
  But we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the wisdom that has been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds to our glory,
  
  1Cr 2:8**
  which none of the rulers of this world has known. For had they known it, they wouldn't have crucified the Lord of glory.

So if satan and his demons knew of the power of the dbr of Yeshua, this message would have been suppressed.
It had to be a mystery.

Paul refers to this "Gospel of the Grace of God" as a dispensation or a whole new administration of God never before revealed or employed until Paul:

• 
  Eph 3:1**
  For this cause I, Sha'ul, am the prisoner of Messiah Yeshua on behalf of you Goyim,
  
  Eph 3:2**
  if it is so that you have heard of the administration of that grace of God which was given me toward you;
  
  Eph 3:3**
  how that by revelation the mystery was made known to me, as I wrote before in few words,
  
  Eph 3:4**
  by which, when you read, you can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Messiah;
  
  Eph 3:5**
  which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
  
  Eph 3:6**
  that the Goyim are fellow heirs, and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of his promise in Messiah Yeshua through the Good News,
  
  
  Eph 3:7**
  whereof I was made a servant, according to the gift of that grace of God which was given me according to the working of his power.
  
  Eph 3:8**
  To me, the very least of all holy ones, was this grace given, to preach to the Goyim the unsearchable riches of Messiah,
  
  Eph 3:9**
  and to make all men see what is the administration of the mysterywhich for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things through Yeshua the Messiah;

Paul's message was salvation by grace through trusting in, clinging to, and relying upon Yeshua as your crucified and resurrected Savior and that this salvation cannot be attained by good merit or deed. (The Gospel of Grace)

You won't find anywhere in the Epistles Paul preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom which was preached by Yeshua, John, and the 12.
You won't find them preaching the gospel of the dbr, which Paul preached in the Epistles, because it was hidden from them and a mystery.

Do you see any message of Grace when Peter is leaning into the Israelites in Acts chapter 2-3 passages above?

Christ, John, and the 12 were preaching a water baptism in connection to salvation. The only one who didn't get dunked was the thief on the cross.(his hands were more than tied, I'm sure)

What did Paul say about water baptism in regards to salvation?

• 1Cr 1:17
  For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Nope, Paul definitely doesn't connect water baptism w/salvation in his gospel as was in the gospel of the kingdom in the book of Matthew & in Acts chapter 2-3.

In Acts, Peter never mentions sacrifice, or propitiation, or the blood of Jesus Christ. He never associates Christ's death with remission of sins as Paul does repeatedly throughout his Epistles.

Remember they were preaching "Repent, be immersed, the Kingdom is at hand, Yeshua is King?

Remember that Yeshua & the 12 were only to preach to the lost sheep of Israel and NOT to the gentiles?

Paul's commission was to the Gentiles exclusively?

• Rom 11:13
  For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
  
  Rom 15:8**
  Now I say that Messiah has been made a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God,

And for what reason?

• 
  that he might confirm the promises given to the fathers,
  
  Rom 15:16**
  that I (Paul) should be a servant of Messiah Yeshua to the Goyim, ministering as a Kohen the Good News of God, that the offering up of the Goyim might be made acceptable, sanctified by the Ruach HaKodesh.(Holy Spirit)

Yeshua the King Messiah and the apostles prior to Paul preached only to the people of Israel, with just a few exceptions :[list]Mat 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, . . . But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

• Mat 15:22
  And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
  
  Mat 15:23
  But he answered her not a word. . .But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Our Good Lord did wind up making an exception for her, though.
Foreshadowing of the Gospel of Grace, perhaps?

Alright, I'm going to sleep, now.

[BoyntonStu]

[quote=Livefire]Gospel....The greek word for this actually means "good news" not infallibility, altho the word of the Lord is as silver purified in a furnace 7 times.

2 comments:

1> What is the Greek word?

2> Would going through the furnace 8 times make the silver even more pure?

Etymology: Middle English, from Old English gOdspel (translation of Late Latin evangelium), from gOd good + spell tale -- more at SPELL

Whatever you rhink about the etymology of the word gospel, the bottom line is whether the words in the book are true. All of them.

If some of the translated words are known to be factually false, how then does a reader of the book know that any other word is true or untrue?

I begin with the KJV using the word Unicorn. Is the use of the word Unicorn correct or is it incorrect?

BoyntonStu

[weishaupt1776]

Stu, I repect the fact that there alot of variables which can relate to a topic, either generally or specifically, but you are very close to changing this into a Bible translation thread and going off of the topic.

If you plan on hammering this one out to the end, I would appreciate it if you could start a new thread on the topic you are presenting

In fact, Livefire, when you reply to Stu, could you maybe create the new thread yourself & just copy/paste or hyperlink to those posts in this thread over in that thread?

The most intelligent thing I ever heard regarding all this (God, etc) was:

"You're guess is as good as mine."

I'm still trying to figure out the more "contemporary" versions of the "Gospel" in contrast to things I've read. Like:

The "gospel of prosperity" in which we're all assured God wants each and every one of us to have all the material wealth and abundance we can stand while, simultaneously of course, this same "God" says that "hardly shall a rich man enter the kindgom of heaven.

Again, I've no problems with "faith." It's "religion" that gets you nowhere.

Besides, isn't the study and examination of all this a certain path to madness?

Eccl. 1:18 18 "For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow."

I simply can't do "this" anymore, "this" meaning pretend like anything short of the love of, and for, my family and friends has any meaning and relevance whatsoever.

Randy