Jesus was born September 11th, 3 BC.

[rottweiler]

"Another consideration is the lunar eclipse. Josephus in 700 pages mentions only one lunar eclipse—which occurred shortly before Herod’s death. (Antiquities XVII 6/4) Partial lunar eclipses visible in Palestine occur almost every year—but total eclipses are rare.

Astronomers calculate that lunar eclipses occurred:

5 BC September 14 (Eclipse three hours after sunset)
4 BC March 13 (Partial eclipse near midnight)
1 BC January 10 (Total eclipse near midnight)
1 BC December 29 (Partial eclipse at sunset)

The problem with the 4 BC eclipse as the one before Herod’s death is that Josephus records too many events from the eclipse to the Passover festival. In 4 BC this was 29 days. There occurred:

Herod’s sickness got worse and worms bred in his body. (Wars I 33:1,5)
He was taken to warm baths 15km away for treatment and returned. (Wars I 33:5-6; Antiquities XVII 6:5)
Herod planned his funeral. (Wars I 33:6)
Herod summoned key men from every village—up to 130km away—and they arrived. (Antiquities XVII 6:5)
Herod’s son, Antipater, was executed and Herod died five days later. (Wars I 33:7-8; Antiquities XVII 7;8:1)
The body was ceremoniously carried 35km from Jericho to Herodium by soldiers walking one mile daily and buried. (Antiquities XVII 8:3)
Seven days of mourning followed and then a feast. (Wars II 1:1; Antiquities XVII 8:4)
A further public mourning was held for patriots executed before the eclipse. (Wars II 1:2)
Herod’s son, Archelaus, was crowned and issued some decrees prior to the Passover. (Wars I 33:8)
Passover occurred. (Wars II 1:3; Antiquities XVII 9:3)
(Pratt 1990; Chester 1993)

This impossible schedule suggests that Herod died not after the 4 BC eclipse but after another eclipse when there was more time between eclipse and Passover.

The January 10, 1 BC, eclipse was a total eclipse whereas the others were partial. This eclipse would allow about three months until the Passover for the above-listed events to occur. This also fits with a Jewish tradition that Herod died in the month of Shebat — January/February."

Originally Posted by Shoonra

The Jewish Antiquities by Josephus, book 17 chapt 7-9, make clear that Herod the Great died between the date of the lunar eclipse and the date of Passover, which was presumably a fairly short span, and that the eclipse took place within a few days of a public fast.

No such fast day occurs in December or January, but there is a fast the precedes the minor festival of Purim (which usually occurs in March), namely the Fast of Esther, on the 13th of Adar. A lunar eclipse would necessarily have been on the 15th of Jewish month, the night of the full moon. As Purim comes one month prior to Passover, this supports the 4 BC eclipse against the 1 BC eclipse.

[Shoonra]

I don't think the schedule is "impossible", especially considering the likelihood that Herod, as monarch, is given credit for "doing" things that he may have merely ordered others to do for him.

I think a crucial element of the sequence given by Josephus is that this followed close on the heels of a religious fast day. As I said, no such fast occurred in December or January but did occur in early March, 4 BC.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

I don't think the schedule is "impossible", especially considering the likelihood that Herod, as monarch, is given credit for "doing" things that he may have merely ordered others to do for him.

I think a crucial element of the sequence given by Josephus is that this followed close on the heels of a religious fast day. As I said, no such fast occurred in December or January but did occur in early March, 4 BC.

It is wise to consider Josephus a fabricated account.

[rottweiler]

Aseres B'Teves

Babylonian army begins their siege of Jerusalem.

http://www.frum.org/dvreitorah/viewD...px?ParshaID=67

Originally Posted by Shoonra

I don't think the schedule is "impossible", especially considering the likelihood that Herod, as monarch, is given credit for "doing" things that he may have merely ordered others to do for him.

I think a crucial element of the sequence given by Josephus is that this followed close on the heels of a religious fast day. As I said, no such fast occurred in December or January but did occur in early March, 4 BC.

[Shoonra]

By golly you're right. The Fast of 10th of Teves is hardly remembered now but this year it fell on Dec. 17th. As the fast is on the tenth of the Hebrew month, the eclipse must have occurred five days later.

OK, I stand corrected.

However, as this leave about 3 months between the eclipse and Passover, and Josephus apparently specified an eclipse occuring shortly before Passover, this still seems to me less likely than the 4 BC eclipse.

As for clues in the Scripture about the dates, Luke 2:2 says that at the time of Jesus's birth, Quirinius was governor of Syria. His governorship was limited to 6-7 AD; but this is completely incompatible with any other date derived from Scripture or classical sources, as Herod would have definitely been dead more than 5 years by then.

[rottweiler]

Quirinius was "hegemon" of Syria for the census with Saturninus’ governorship of Syria.

Originally Posted by Shoonra

By golly you're right. The Fast of 10th of Teves is hardly remembered now but this year it fell on Dec. 17th. As the fast is on the tenth of the Hebrew month, the eclipse must have occurred five days later.

OK, I stand corrected.

However, as this leave about 3 months between the eclipse and Passover, and Josephus apparently specified an eclipse occuring shortly before Passover, this still seems to me less likely than the 4 BC eclipse.

As for clues in the Scripture about the dates, Luke 2:2 says that at the time of Jesus's birth, Quirinius was governor of Syria. His governorship was limited to 6-7 AD; but this is completely incompatible with any other date derived from Scripture or classical sources, as Herod would have definitely been dead more than 5 years by then.