The Koran How it verifies that Jesus was the Son of God

[trooper2ls]

Okay, I have been reading this thread for a few days now and am going to inject a radical idea for you guys to consider. No offense to anyone's belief system but what I am about to present here comes from the original Hebrew manuscripts.. not an english translation. Due to the inconsistancies I had noticed over the years in different translations I took it upon myself to learn the original language and study and meditate on the scriptures in the original context.. so here goes the radical theology..

I bet you thought that the Ten Commandments were written for you to obey another of a higher authority, right? Of course, we should adhere to their principals, but did you know that the Ten Commandments were written for us to use so that our creation can obey US? The Ten Commandments are structured so that YOU say them from YOUR viewpoint.

You have probably never heard of this before, have you? Well, that is because we have gotten into our creation (our physical world) so deep we think “we are the creation.” Well, as you have learned, we are the creators of everything we see and do and think. What we see is just the reflection of our own mind, and the Ten Commandments are the reflection of what we as gods actually command to our creation. Go to Exodus 20.

Just imagine you are looking into the mirror and saying the first commandment,

You shall have no other gods before me.

Who is saying those words and making that reflection in the mirror? An entity called Yahweh, Jahovah, Elohim, etc., etc., etc.? Nope, guess again, how about, YOU? It appears that we have turned reality upside down and backwards to get out of taking responsibility. We have done the impossible - making the image real and then obeying it. We have even made an image with initials "US" so that we might escape responsibility and say "the world must obey US (UNITED STATES)"! In reality, our own world (our image including the UNITED SATES) must obey each one of us!

Since our creation is also a reflection of ourselves, we also must heed this universal principal. We can have no other gods before us so that we worship (create worth) anything else more than we value ourselves. We are responsible for our universe alone and not another – how can they be? How can another be responsible for your actions and your deeds – it is an impossibility. Did another think your thoughts, DO your actions and move your body. Even though a number of major religions will “argue” otherwise, YOU ARE GUILTY.


You shall not make unto you any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth, you shall not bow down yourself to them, nor serve them;

Graven Heb pecel – idol, to carve wood or stone, grave, hew.

Image – there is no word for image, it was added to aid in understanding of GRAVEN.

Likeness Heb temunah – something portioned or fashioned out, a shape, phantom, embodiment or manifestation; representation.

Bow Heb shachah – to depress, prostrate (in homage to royalty), fall down, humbly beseech, obey, make to stoop, worship; related to sachah – make to swim, inundate.

Serve Heb abad – to work, serve, till, enslave, keep in bondage or service (this is the same root word as Exodus 2:5 “there was not man to till the ground”, and same as “bondman” when Israel was in Egypt.

Remember, you are saying this to the mirror - to your creation. So why would we want to make a law like this? Well, what if you started submitting to the image in the mirror (your creation) and you obeyed it every time it spoke to you or gave you a ticket or got a nasty letter from it? "The government says this….", or "the TV said that…", "this statute says we cannot do...", "the LAW says we must conform…", "the Bank says they are going to take my house…". WHY ARE YOU LISTENING TO AND WORSHIPPING YOUR OWN CREATION???? Who is running your universe anyway - You or them?

Secondly, it does not say "you shall NOT make graven images". It says - don't make them then give them authority over you and serve them. You see, you can make anything you want as long as you take responsibility for it. You may be thinking, "Wow, that is not what I was told, this is just too simple, it must be more complex"! …. NOT.

Drill: With the above definitions in mind, what does an attorney “represent” in the court room? How about a judge, a corporation, or a title? How have you “bowed down to or served them”?

You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that takes his name in vain.

Lord Heb Yehovah – self-existant, eternal; from hayah – to exist, to be, to become, come to pass, accomplished; related to Chaldean havah – to exist, to judge.

Name: Heb shem - definite and conspicuous position, honor, authority, character, to put; from shamayim - aloft in the sky.

Vain Heb shawv - desolating, evil, to rush over, tempest.

Have you ever wondered why you cannot be held guiltless or be forgiven for sinning against the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit translates to "the mind", and when you lie to yourself (your mind) then you cannot get well. You are stuck in a lie and as long as you do not confront that problem in your face, it will continue forever!

We have told ourselves countless times that we are "only human", "chaff in the wind", or "a vessel of God". Is this true? Are you a vessel or is your body a vessel? If you drive your car - are you a car? How many lies have we told ourselves over our entire existence? ANSWER: A LOT!!

Then if you truly understand that you are a god who has created all that one sees and experiences, and you say "I can't do that…", or "why would they listen to me?", what are you really saying? You are saying that you have not created this circumstance and you do not want to take responsibility for it. You are saying that you are not "Lord" over your creation and therefore you have desolated your definite and conspicuous position, your honorable, lofty name as Lord and master of your creation. You have DISHONORED your name. You have taken your name as Lord in vain. Replace phrases like “I can’t” with “I can” or even better “it is done”.

Drill: Write down several examples of negative phrases that you say that LIMIT you or degrade you. Now write them again like they already EXIST right now, in the present. Discuss this with your study mate and make an agreement to remind you to talk IN THE PRESENT like your actions already exist.

.. part 2 in next post ..

[trooper2ls]

Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shall you labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord, in it you shall not do any work, you nor your son, nor daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is in your gates; For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.

Remember Heb zakar - to mark, to remember, to mention, record, memorial.

Sabbath Heb - intermission, to repose, desist from exertion, cease, celebrate, rest, put away, take away, rid.

Labor Heb abad - to work, to serve, till, enslave, keep in bondage, be bondmen, compel, dress, execute, husbandman, become a servant, do service, transgress, worshipper.

Son Heb ben - to build, make, create

Again you are commanding your creation when you say this, "You will serve me and I will enslave you, keep you in bondage and I will compel you to become a servant and you and your own offspring or creations will worship me".

Sabbath mean in the viewpoint of the creation? To repose, to cease, put away, take away, RID - that sounds terminal doesn't it? You are basically saying to your creation, "remember, I brought you into this world and I can take you out!"

I want to point out that the commandments are not for “ruling” other gods – they are for ruling your creation. This is important to remember. The intention of this exercise is not to become a megalomaniac (look it up), but to be responsible for what you are creating.

Honour your father and your mother; that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord gives you.

Honour Heb kabad - to be heavy, honourable, weighty, glorify,

Father Heb ab - father, chief, principal

Mother Heb em - a mother as the bond of the family

Who is your creation's father and mother? Who is the principal of your creation? Who spawned it? How was it created, concieved and bound through a contract, and where did it first take place? So what are you telling your creation? You are telling it "let my words be heavy upon you for I am the principal, take heed to me, your maker, and obey my contract so that your days may be long upon the land that I have given you."

You shall not kill.

Kill Heb ratsach - to dash in pieces, kill, murder, slay.

Why would you be commanding your creation not to murder? Because only you can say what creation can continue or end - NOT the creation. Only you can consume your creation or destroy it or take it away - not the Bank or the Secret Service or the IRS – it is not their call, it is not their job, it is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS!

If a corporation is giving you a problem, remember you gave them credit, you gave them life. Without you they could not exist. If they do not recognize this fact, then you will have to “kill” the corporation. And how does one do that?

Remember in the Wizard of OZ when Dorothy, Scarecrow, Tinman, and the cowardly Lion all came before the Wizard and wanted something? What did the Wizard tell them? “Bring me the broom of the Wicked Witch of the West and I will give you what you ask”. Dorothy exclaimed, “But we may have to kill her to get the broom!” If you remember the Wizard did not answer. It was like he was saying to himself, “exactly!” So they went to the witch’s castle and how did they get the broom? They poured water (maritime law) on the WEST (to be security) and liquidated her (Bankruptcy Liquidation – Chapter 7)! When they completed this task, they all actually realized that they already had what they wanted. “Dorothy, you could always go back to Kansas”.

You shall not commit adultery.

Adultery Heb na'aph - to commit adultery, apostatize.

Apostatize: [Greek apostasia - a standing away from a defection, apo - from + sta - to stand] an abandonment of what one has professed; a total desertion or departure from one's faith, principles or party; traitorous.

Of course one would want their creation not to depart from obeying them. You now have your own religion and your creation must be faithful to you if they want to "live long upon the land".

You shall not steal.

Steal Heb ganab - thieve, to deceive, carry away, secretly bring, get by stealth.

You do not want your creation to carry away, or get by stealth ANYTHING in your realm, in your universe including other being's creations.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Witness Heb ed - a witness, testimony, recorder, prince.

Neighbor Heb rea - an associate, a thought (as association of ideas); from ra'ah - to tend to a flock, to pasture it, to rule, to associate with as a friend, companion, wander, waste

Here again we have an indication that our creation originates from our thoughts. It truly appears that our creation has a mind of its own, and it will rule us if we do not take responsibility for it and rule it our selves. Otherwise, it could start lying to us and telling us that we must obey our creation which is of course a "false testimony".

You shall not covet your neighbor's house, you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is your neighbor's.

Covet Heb chamad - to delight in, beauty, greatly beloved, covet, delectable thing, desire, lust, pleasant, precious, to long for or wish for.

Desire [Latin desidero from de to take away + sidus a star] to wish, to be in a state of anxiety about something; an emotion or excitement of the mind, directed to the attainment or possession of an object from which pleasure is expected.

Now just so you know, all of these laws apply to us as well when we deal with each other as honorable people. We must respect each other. This being the case, why would you want another's property when you can create your own? Why is it not OK to desire something - like a car or a house? When you desire something, you are repeating in your mind over and over again, "that thing that I want in my mind is what I do not have". Why are you creating that you do not have it - why are you creating lack? Wouldn't it be more logical to actually create in your mind that you actually have it?

I can hear you now, "but I DON'T HAVE IT"! And you know what? You are right, because you are a god and you can have it your way by continuing to create what just came out of your mouth. But consider this, if you never have it in your mind first, YOU WILL NEVER GET IT IN THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE.

Remember value means?

Value: Greek time (tee-may) - a value, money paid, valuables, esteem, dignity itself; from tino - to pay a price (as a penalty), to be punished with.

When you value something and you desire it, you are saying, "I do not have the thing that I want so bad and therefore I am punishing myself with it until I get it". What is the product of "TRYING to get something done for a thousand years"? You get a thousand years of TRYING, but you do not get the product do you?

I think that this last commandment is one of the most important rules - You shall not covet. This is where we start remembering how to create again. This is where we take control of our universe and take responsibility for everything we think and say and do. For if we do not guide our own thoughts and our own actions then we will get exactly what we are allowing to be floating around in our minds. If you create "I have" then the physical universe must obey you, and conversely, if you say "I don't have" then the physical universe will also obey you.

How many times have we said "I don't have enough money to pay the bills", or "I have a piece of junk for a car", or "my job sucks"? I just have one question - WHY ARE YOU CREATING THAT? Are you allowing your creation to dictate to you? Are you basing your life on a piece of paper with ink on it (called a bank statement) that you interpret as "you do not have enough money"? All I've got to say is …Wow, that is an incredible thing that a god can actually create lack! A god can create anything, however you are creating that you DON'T HAVE anything - that is an impossibility. Pat yourself on the back, congratulations - you are actually doing the impossible!!!

I must say that you are doing something incredibly challenging. Wouldn't it be more fun if you decided you wanted something and took responsibility for it from its beginning to its end, that you could imagine you already having it - say a new car. Imagine you seeing your reflection in the shine of the hood, then getting in the car, feeling the cushion of the seat, the aroma of "new car", the steering wheel in your hands, you turning the key, driving away with the wind in you face down a scenic country road, pushing the pedal to the floor for that rush of speed, all the while having a smile on your face. Feels good doesn't it? You have just created a thought that if nourished and embellished upon will result in that dream.

..part 3 conclusion in next post ...

[netwrkranger]

Jesus is God and the Koran confirms it for those who will humble themselves before God. Since you can't do that you are lost searching for some Prime creator, whatever that is.

Obviously there is some intelligence that had a hand in shaping what we call the universe. The Prime Creator is what you call God. I fail to see how this differs from the concept of one God.

You do know where the word 'God' comes from, correct? Here is tidbit from wikipedia:
The earliest written form of the Germanic word "god" comes from the 6th century Christian Codex Argenteus. The English word itself descends from the Proto-Germanic *ǥuđan. Most linguists agree that the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European form *ǵhu-tó-m was based on the root *ǵhau(ə)-, which meant either "To call" or to "invoke."

What one calls 'God' is less important than finding one's connection and relation to Him (or Her).

If you had found him you could tell me about him like I tell you about my God.

This sounds like a declension into paganism that you emphatically stated several posts ago.

You have taken a spiritual term "Son of God" and applied it literally. That is a mistake. There is only one true God.

How can the "Son of Man" be also the "Son of God"? That's sounds impossible to me unless we are talking Euphemisms.

This sounds like an argument as to the substance of what 'God' is. Judging from the number of rounds this post has gone, there will be no change on either side as to the substance of what 'God' is. Just as there are a myriad of personality types for people, there will be many beliefs of what God IS.

I still find it a stretch that the Qur'an verifies that Jesus was the "Son of God" when nearly 2 billion Muslims and Islamic scholars fail to arrive at the same view you espouse. You may be reading more into verses than is actually there. This would be a case of seeing what one desires rather than what actually is.

Regards,
netwrkranger

[trooper2ls]

You cannot allow physical barriers to get in the way of your dreams. Matter, energy, space and time are but considerations.

Consideration [Latin considero, con together + sidus a star] to fix the mind on; to respect; to take into view or account; to meditate on; to regard; to reflect; important or valuable; making allowance for.

So if you are taking into account, meditating, regarding as important or fixing the mind on a barrier to your dream, then your mind will reflect it into the physical universe and of course, you will get what you make real – your worst fears. It's an honest and true universal principle - crap in/crap out, quality in/quality out.

And what if you do not apply the ten commandments to your creation?

Deuteronomy 28:68 And the Lord shall bring you into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spoke unto you, You shall see it no more again; and there you shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.

What does the Power Elite call UNITED STATES? New Egypt! And it is a fiction – you shall see it no more again. And you have been brought into slavery by way of artificial vessels (ships) called a straw-man. And no man bought us as slaves – WE SOLD OURSELVES INTO BONDAGE to our enemies who never paid a dime for us and our credit.

Now you have learned that you do create law every time you think and say a word. You are creating whether you want to or not, it just depends on what you are allowing to be in your mind.

Now onward with your thoughs of this interpretation.

...J

[Jerry Pitts]

Originally Posted by weishaupt1776

Rottweiler, your argument is not with Jerry, it's with the WORD:


There's still time for you to reconsider your position

Weish:

The really exasperating thing about this thread started by Rottweiller, is his opening remarks

Originally Posted by rottweiler

This alone proves the deity of Jesus Christ, that he is the Son of God, and not just the son of man.

.

He then turns around and states that the use of the phrase 'Son of God' is 'just a euphemism'. Sounds like he is being tossed about by every wave of dogma that is preached. He is being inconsistent in his expressions of 'who' and 'what' Jesus the Christ really is. That is shameful.

Jerry Carlos

[rottweiler]

Good going Jerry. You mixed my words with the author's words of the article I quoted in post one.

Originally Posted by Jerry Pitts

Weish:

The really exasperating thing about this thread started by Rottweiller, is his opening remarks .

He then turns around and states that the use of the phrase 'Son of God' is 'just a euphemism'. Sounds like he is being tossed about by every wave of dogma that is preached. He is being inconsistent in his expressions of 'who' and 'what' Jesus the Christ really is. That is shameful.

Jerry Carlos

[rottweiler]

From your first post you have been criticizing the author for something he never said.

I quoted an article. You have taken it out of context. You stole the authors intent.

Then you stole my intent.

You don't know what a Hebrew euphemism is.

Let's see. The Koran says we should listen to Allah's apostles of which Isa is obviously even greater than Mohammed. It says Allah brought us the Torah, Gospel and Koran. It says Isa was born of a virgin, was sinless, did miracles, and rose from the dead to be with Allah.

I find the author correct. The Koran does verify that Jesus is the Son of God.

Originally Posted by netwrkranger

I still find it a stretch that the Qur'an verifies that Jesus was the "Son of God" when nearly 2 billion Muslims and Islamic scholars fail to arrive at the same view you espouse. You may be reading more into verses than is actually there. This would be a case of seeing what one desires rather than what actually is.

Regards,
netwrkranger

[netwrkranger]

In reading your post:

1. Do you consider Muhammad to be an apostle of God?
2. Do you accept the Qur'an as one of the Holy Books of God?

The Koran says we should listen to Allah's apostles of which Isa is obviously even greater than Mohammed.

3. This "we" you speak of, have you become Muslim now? What peoples are you referring to in "we"? As I understand the workings of this world currently, only Muslims accept all 3 books as the Holy Books of God. "We" also includes the issuer of the argument(s).
4. Can you produce any verse(s) in the Qur'an that explicitly states that Isa is superior to Muhammad?

I find the author correct. The Koran does verify that Jesus is the Son of God.

5. Which author are you referring to?
6. Can you produce for us the verse(s) in the Qur'an that explicitly states that Jesus was "the Son of God"?

Might I suggest the Yusuf Ali version of the Qur'an if you choose to do the research?

- netwrkranger

[rottweiler]

Try reading this thread from the beginning and you will find the answers.

Originally Posted by netwrkranger

In reading your post:

1. Do you consider Muhammad to be an apostle of God?
2. Do you accept the Qur'an as one of the Holy Books of God?



3. This "we" you speak of, have you become Muslim now? What peoples are you referring to in "we"? As I understand the workings of this world currently, only Muslims accept all 3 books as the Holy Books of God. "We" also includes the issuer of the argument(s).
4. Can you produce any verse(s) in the Qur'an that explicitly states that Isa is superior to Muhammad?



5. Which author are you referring to?
6. Can you produce for us the verse(s) in the Qur'an that explicitly states that Jesus was "the Son of God"?

Might I suggest the Yusuf Ali version of the Qur'an if you choose to do the research?

- netwrkranger

[netwrkranger]

Having reviewed you posts, yet again, many of them do not match what I have pulled from two independent sources. Those independent sources have the verses almost word for word.

Will you not answer my questions line-by-line?

- netwrkranger