Romans 13 / Caesar

[weishaupt1776]

I would like to discuss links, expositions, breakdowns of the text of Romans 13 and the "render to caesar" misinterpretations in the context of how the verses do not suggest that Christians are called to lick the boots of a tyrannical government.

I have yet to read these, but at first glance they look O.K.

http://www.taxtruth4u.com/caesar.html

Don't "buy in" to the corp sole scam though:
http://www.hiscovenantministries.org...e/romans_1.htm

http://www.hiscovenantministries.org...e/romans_2.htm

http://indianamilitia.homestead.com/30_Ways_IRS.html

[trbish]

Good Topic.

One may also be intersted in listening to John Weaver. Below is a link to part 1 of a 4-part series on "Christian and Civil Government" which deals with Romans 13.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninf...ID =111902995

[weishaupt1776]

Thank you, thank you, thank you

I'm downloading the mp3 now & I'll burn the CD's and give 'em to some pastors

It's amazing how much bondage the Ecclesia is in.

They are being intimidated to cough up ten percent of their NET wages AFTER the IRS has raped 30%.

They justify it with "Render Unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God's what is God's"

See, there ya go. Tithing and Taxes in one verse.

Then they are told to lick the boots of an unlawful government because of a shallow readin of Romans 13.

Serious Bondage.

That's not counting promissory notes & credit cards.

[weishaupt1776]

Here's All 4 parts to pastor Weaver's most compelling exposition
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.as... civil&x=0&y=0

[trbish]

Here are some additional related topics by Pastor John Weaver:

Temple Tax, Mathew 17: 24-27
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninf... =121503101752

Biblical Methods of Dealing with Tyranny Job 12
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninf... =11130212230

Biblical Money and Inflation Genesis 23: 1-20
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninf...ID =330412270

[weishaupt1776]

This looks like a goldmine. Greg Price's stuff looks like some gems

http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.as...&keyword=State

[weishaupt1776]

I tell ya, to simplify our studies, just Pastor Weaver's 4 part series ALONE will charge you up & educate you at the same time. Talk about Scriptural Authority.

See, we need to get this and walk it out here in this age before the New Heaven & New Earth come in so that we can administrate.

[Livefire]

Just as a note without going into intensive exegis.......
Tithing never involved money....it was always the firstfuits of the agricultural increase. They had silver and gold back then too!!!! I would like to see what a minister would do if one presented him/her with a chicken and a basket of veggies from the garden! There was also a second and a third tithe taken as well. One was for the person and his famili to eat before the Lord and the other was for the support of the widow and the orphan! In any one year, 19% of the increase was given if you study it out. We also have to remember that ancient Israel was a theocratic republic governed by God and adminstered by men.

I wouldnt mind that set up....if we did that there would be very little poverty in the land today! My practical advice about tithing is this....If you believe wholeheatedly in the vision of a local ecclesia and have the financial means to support it with a "tithe" ...God Bless and I rejoice that He has blessed you in that manner! On the other hand, if you struggle to make ends meet and you let some "minister" lay a guilt trip on you to give that last 10 FRNs in the offering plate instead of taking care of the family, you deserve to have yer backside kicked. A man that doesnt provide for his own house is WORSE than an infidel according to scripture!!! Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY dividing the Word of Truth. The Spirit of God will lead you into all Truth!

[iamfreeru2]

Originally Posted by Livefire

Just as a note without going into intensive exegis.......
Tithing never involved money....it was always the firstfuits of the agricultural increase. They had silver and gold back then too!!!! I would like to see what a minister would do if one presented him/her with a chicken and a basket of veggies from the garden! There was also a second and a third tithe taken as well. One was for the person and his famili to eat before the Lord and the other was for the support of the widow and the orphan! In any one year, 19% of the increase was given if you study it out. We also have to remember that ancient Israel was a theocratic republic governed by God and adminstered by men.

I wouldnt mind that set up....if we did that there would be very little poverty in the land today! My practical advice about tithing is this....If you believe wholeheatedly in the vision of a local ecclesia and have the financial means to support it with a "tithe" ...God Bless and I rejoice that He has blessed you in that manner! On the other hand, if you struggle to make ends meet and you let some "minister" lay a guilt trip on you to give that last 10 FRNs in the offering plate instead of taking care of the family, you deserve to have yer backside kicked. A man that doesnt provide for his own house is WORSE than an infidel according to scripture!!! Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY dividing the Word of Truth. The Spirit of God will lead you into all Truth!

Remember the tithe was always SUBSTANCE and never a fiction. YHWH does not deal in fictions. FRNs are not only fiction, but an obligation. Does YHWH want an obligation? A piece if paper? A debt? YHWH wants first fruit from our labor. I like what Winston Shrout says "All wealth comes from the ground." Working the ground is not only satisfying but you provide substance for your family and others as well. Too many pastors think money is the only tithe and then do not even know what money is.

Livefire, what YHWH wants is our worship out of love for Him. He wants our trust and knowing that He provides what we need. If He knows we are willing to give our last dollar to Him, He will honor that and provide for us. He will never let His people starve, especially when are obedient to Him. Family is always second to YHWH, remember that.

[Smith]

Thankyou that was very informative .