The Koran How it verifies that Jesus was the Son of God

[Jerry Pitts]

duplicate posting.. my apologies

[netwrkranger]

Son of God is a euphemism. Jesus is not literally God's son anymore than any of you are citizens of the United States.

The Koran tells how Allah anointed Jesus, through a virgin birth to be the Messiah - Savior of the world, nearly five hundred and fifty years before Muhammad was born.

Muslims believe the Koran was written by God and is God's message to all people. If Jesus is what the Koran teaches he is/was, it is impossible for Muhammad to have replaced Jesus. There can be only one Messiah.

Jesus did the Messiah's work (opening heaven) 550 years before Islam's Prophet was born.

No where in the Qur'an does it say that Jesus was the son of God or Savior of the world. Muhammad did not replace Jesus, but brought the last part of His message to humanity (Islamic belief).

In the Qur'an, it does say that Isa (Jesus) was an apostle of God. Perhaps you missed some of the information in my past posts mainly:

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryam_%28sura%29
Actually, in this sura, God describes those who say that Isa was the Son of God as saying something blasphemous, as God is the omnipotent creator and all the creatures in earth and in heaven are God's servants. Maryam is venerated as "the Lady of the women of the world" (سيدة نساء العالمين) but not as the mother of God.

Rottwieler, I am curious. Do you actually have a Qur'an? Have you read one? I am quite sure if you searched the Qur'an or talked to any Islamic scholar, neither source would substantiate any of the claims that have been made in this thread as to the Qur'an saying that Jesus was the Son of God and the Savior of the world.

These paraphrasings of the source cites fail to even pull the original citations from the book coupled with the adding of foreign phrases not even in the verses.

Regards,
netwrkranger

[rottweiler]

How do you define Messiah then?

Originally Posted by netwrkranger

No where in the Qur'an does it say that Jesus was the son of God or Savior of the world. Muhammad did not replace Jesus, but brought the last part of His message to humanity (Islamic belief).

In the Qur'an, it does say that Isa (Jesus) was an apostle of God. Perhaps you missed some of the information in my past posts mainly:

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryam_%28sura%29
Actually, in this sura, God describes those who say that Isa was the Son of God as saying something blasphemous, as God is the omnipotent creator and all the creatures in earth and in heaven are God's servants. Maryam is venerated as "the Lady of the women of the world" (سيدة نساء العالمين) but not as the mother of God.

Rottwieler, I am curious. Do you actually have a Qur'an? Have you read one? I am quite sure if you searched the Qur'an or talked to any Islamic scholar, neither source would substantiate any of the claims that have been made in this thread as to the Qur'an saying that Jesus was the Son of God and the Savior of the world.

These paraphrasings of the source cites fail to even pull the original citations from the book coupled with the adding of foreign phrases not even in the verses.

Regards,
netwrkranger

[rottweiler]

Drama queen.

Originally Posted by Jerry Pitts

My oh my! Would you be willing to wager the eternal status of your spirit on that statement?

Jerry Carlos

[netwrkranger]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah

, Standard Mašíaḥ Tiberian Māšîªḥ; Aramaic: משיחא, Aramaic/Syriac: ܡܫܺܝܚܳܐ, Məšîḥā; Arabic: المسيح‎, al-Masīḥ) Literally, Messiah means "The Anointed (One)", typically someone anointed with holy anointing oil. Figuratively, anointing is done to signify being chosen for a task; so, Messiah means "The Chosen (One)", particularly someone divinely chosen.

In Jewish messianic tradition and eschatology, Messiah refers to a future Jewish King from the Davidic line, who will be and rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age. In Standard Hebrew, The Messiah is often referred to as מלך המשיח, Méleḫ ha-Mašíaḥ (in the Tiberian vocalization pronounced Méleḵ hamMāšîªḥ), literally meaning "the Anointed King."

Christians believe that prophecies in the Hebrew Bible refer to a spiritual savior, and consider Jesus to be that Messiah (Christ). In the (Greek) Septuagint version of the Old Testament, khristos was used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיַח (Mašíaḥ,) (messiah), meaning "anointed." [1]

In Islam, Jesus (Isa) is also called the Messiah (Masih)[2] but is not considered to be the Son of God.

The Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible into Greek translates all thirty-nine instances of the word messiah as Christos. The New Testament records the Greek transliteration Μεσσίας, Messias, twice, in John 1:41 and 4:25.



One anointed with holy oil or one who is chosen (for a task). The definition above also provides the etymology of the word as well.


[Wikipedia isn't the be all and end all of information, but its pretty darn good (and convenient)]

Regards,
netwrkranger

[Jerry Pitts]

Originally Posted by rottweiler

Drama queen.

Please define your terminology, else provide an explanation of the intent of the above message.

Jerry Carlos

[rottweiler]

I stipulated that Jesus is not literally the Son of God, I never said he was. Now you have stipulated that Isa, according to the Koran, is an apostle of Allah. Fair enough so far, however, if muslims are to listen to Allah's apostle's where exactly do they find what Isa's message is? Would that message only be found in the Koran?

Originally Posted by netwrkranger

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah

, Standard Mašíaḥ Tiberian Māšîªḥ; Aramaic: משיחא, Aramaic/Syriac: ܡܫܺܝܚܳܐ, Məšîḥā; Arabic: المسيح‎, al-Masīḥ) Literally, Messiah means "The Anointed (One)", typically someone anointed with holy anointing oil. Figuratively, anointing is done to signify being chosen for a task; so, Messiah means "The Chosen (One)", particularly someone divinely chosen.

In Jewish messianic tradition and eschatology, Messiah refers to a future Jewish King from the Davidic line, who will be and rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age. In Standard Hebrew, The Messiah is often referred to as מלך המשיח, Méleḫ ha-Mašíaḥ (in the Tiberian vocalization pronounced Méleḵ hamMāšîªḥ), literally meaning "the Anointed King."

Christians believe that prophecies in the Hebrew Bible refer to a spiritual savior, and consider Jesus to be that Messiah (Christ). In the (Greek) Septuagint version of the Old Testament, khristos was used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיַח (Mašíaḥ,) (messiah), meaning "anointed." [1]

In Islam, Jesus (Isa) is also called the Messiah (Masih)[2] but is not considered to be the Son of God.

The Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible into Greek translates all thirty-nine instances of the word messiah as Christos. The New Testament records the Greek transliteration Μεσσίας, Messias, twice, in John 1:41 and 4:25.



One anointed with holy oil or one who is chosen (for a task). The definition above also provides the etymology of the word as well.


[Wikipedia isn't the be all and end all of information, but its pretty darn good (and convenient)]

Regards,
netwrkranger

[netwrkranger]

I stipulated that Jesus is not literally the Son of God, I never said he was. Now you have stipulated that Isa, according to the Koran, is an apostle of Allah. Fair enough so far, however, if muslims are to listen to Allah's apostle's where exactly do they find what Isa's message is? Would that message only be found in the Koran?

From what I have been taught:
The Qur'an would be the "perfected" and final message of God. The Bible has been altered many times due to such events as the Council of Nicea and Council of Trent with chapters being added or taken out [those items removed are housed at the Vatican library]. Some items removed were the 'Song of Soloman' and the Gospel of Barnabas to name a few. The original form of the Bible can be found in Greek. English Qu'rans have both the Arabic and English side by side. The Councils of Trent and Nicea were politically inspired by the Catholic Church to abate such crisises as some Christian sects believing that Jesus was just a man (not the son of God) and indulgences (Chruches extorting people for money by "paying your way to get into heaven").

Be that as it may, the Bible IS considered a writing that is God inspired. The Bible is one of the books of God.

That being said, Jesus's message isn't just found in the Qur'an. There is A LOT of wisdom, knowledge, and truth contained in the Bible despite its alterations. I only recently discovered the power of the Bible upon studying English Common Law (thank-you, George Gordon). In fact, I have given away all my Qur'ans and kept my Bible for that fact alone. I have a new found, deep appreciation of the Bible. The Bible has more benefit for me now being that we live in a Judeo-Christian society. If we lived under Sharia Law, then I will need a Qur'an (I will probably regret giving away all my Qur'ans in the future...lol).

[rottweiler]

Originally Posted by rottweiler

I stipulated that Jesus is not literally the Son of God, I never said he was. Now you have stipulated that Isa, according to the Koran, is an apostle of Allah. Fair enough so far, however, if muslims are to listen to Allah's apostle's where exactly do they find what Isa's message is? Would that message only be found in the Koran?

According to the Koran, Allah revealed the Old(Torah) and New Testament(Gospel) for mankind.

[3.3] He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.
[3.4] Surely they who disbelieve in the communications of Allah they shall have a severe chastisement; and Allah is Mighty, the Lord of retribution.

[3.48] And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat and the Injeel.

[3.65] O followers of the Book! why do you dispute about Ibrahim, when the Taurat and the Injeel were not revealed till after him; do you not then understand?

[netwrkranger]

Perhaps the Qur'an was brought because the message of the Bible was corrupted?

Perhaps the Bible was brought because the Talmud lacked messages of unconditional love and forgiveness?

Thoughts to ponder,
netwrkranger