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  #21  
Old 03-26-2008, 07:16 PM
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rottweiler rottweiler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Pitts
Please define your terminology, else provide an explanation of the intent of the above message.
Jerry Carlos

Intent? You make it seem like I am about to commit a unpardonable sin. Just hold your horses.

There is only one God.

God inhabited flesh called Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ wasn't literally His Son in a human sense and son of God is a euphemism applied to many people in the Bible. The thing you should focus on is the Messiah was a bridge between God and man, between the spiritual and the physical. He came in the flesh to conquer death for those who believe in Him. He did just that and it is finished. The good guys win.

John
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

What is God's name? I am.

That was the so-called blasphemy that he was crucified for. A man claiming to be God. He was.
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  #22  
Old 03-26-2008, 08:12 PM
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rottweiler rottweiler is offline
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It appears to me that the Koran, Torah, and Gospel are all basically in agreement. That opinion is the reason I started this thread.

Here is something for you to ponder. Who wants people to be divided? That's where you will find the source of corrupted messages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by netwrkranger
Perhaps the Qur'an was brought because the message of the Bible was corrupted?

Perhaps the Bible was brought because the Talmud lacked messages of unconditional love and forgiveness?

Thoughts to ponder,
netwrkranger
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  #23  
Old 03-26-2008, 09:08 PM
Jerry Pitts Jerry Pitts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rottweiler
Intent? You make it seem like I am about to commit a unpardonable sin. Just hold your horses.

There is only one God.

God inhabited flesh called Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ wasn't literally His Son in a human sense and son of God is a euphemism applied to many people in the Bible. The thing you should focus on is the Messiah was a bridge between God and man, between the spiritual and the physical. He came in the flesh to conquer death for those who believe in Him. He did just that and it is finished. The good guys win.

John
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

What is God's name? I am.

That was the so-called blasphemy that he was crucified for. A man claiming to be God. He was.


You evade the issue behind the question. I was speaking in reference to your comment "Drama queen".


"Quote:
Originally Posted by rottweiler
Drama queen."


Jerry Carlos
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  #24  
Old 03-26-2008, 09:52 PM
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rottweiler rottweiler is offline
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Get a life Jerry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Pitts
You evade the issue behind the question. I was speaking in reference to your comment "Drama queen".


"Quote:
Originally Posted by rottweiler
Drama queen."


Jerry Carlos
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  #25  
Old 03-27-2008, 08:28 AM
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netwrkranger netwrkranger is offline
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People of the Books

Quote:
It appears to me that the Koran, Torah, and Gospel are all basically in agreement. That opinion is the reason I started this thread.

Here is something for you to ponder. Who wants people to be divided? That's where you will find the source of corrupted messages.

The Holy Books are in agreement as far as there being one God and basic moral principles. They are not in agreement as far as who is/is not a prophet, the Son of God, Savior of the World, and other particulars.

As far as people being divided, there are many political and commercial interests who want people to be divided. It suits there aims of enrichment, command, control, and manipulation of those divided. Divide and conquer, in an of itself, is a doctrine effectively used for the last few thousand years. The division seems to be in the interpretation of text.

How do you propose unifying people? Unifying everyone under "Jesus is the Son of God" won't work for vast majorities of individuals on this planet else they would already be Christian. It has been tried under fear, threats, duress, coercion, force, slavery, warfare and it still has not come to be.

The opinion that the Qur'an verifies that Jesus was "the Son of God" is a far stretch.

Regards,
netwrkranger
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  #26  
Old 03-27-2008, 10:25 AM
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rottweiler rottweiler is offline
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Jesus is God and the Koran confirms it.

I never proposed unifying everyone. It is not possible. I am trying to help the children of God, which includes some muslims. You are not a muslim, you are a hybrid pagan of some kind. At least you appear peaceful for now.

You said:"At this point in my life, I personally am weary of all monotheistic religions and consider them control tools by elites. Nor is it meant to denigrate the monotheistic religions for those who believe in them fervently. To each their own. If what you do brings you peace in your heart and harms no one else, then all is righteous (and in accordance with Natural Law)."

That was a big old lie. You are searching for God.


Quote:
Originally Posted by netwrkranger
The Holy Books are in agreement as far as there being one God and basic moral principles. They are not in agreement as far as who is/is not a prophet, the Son of God, Savior of the World, and other particulars.

As far as people being divided, there are many political and commercial interests who want people to be divided. It suits there aims of enrichment, command, control, and manipulation of those divided. Divide and conquer, in an of itself, is a doctrine effectively used for the last few thousand years. The division seems to be in the interpretation of text.

How do you propose unifying people? Unifying everyone under "Jesus is the Son of God" won't work for vast majorities of individuals on this planet else they would already be Christian. It has been tried under fear, threats, duress, coercion, force, slavery, warfare and it still has not come to be.

The opinion that the Qur'an verifies that Jesus was "the Son of God" is a far stretch.

Regards,
netwrkranger
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  #27  
Old 03-27-2008, 10:50 AM
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netwrkranger netwrkranger is offline
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Lol.

You should qualify your statements:

Jesus is God (for you). The Koran confirms this (for you). It appears to me you have changed from using third party sources to using the source itself.

The allegation of being pagan: Define the analytical definition of 'pagan'. If that is an offense, then it is between myself and the Prime Creator. Other people have no interest in that contract.

The statement of mine which you claim is a lie: to whom or what is it contradicting?

Am I searching for God? Yes, but I am searching for God (i.e. the connection to Prime Creator) within me rather than externalized worship.

I've noticed your arguments have switched from debating claims, evidences, merits, comparisons, and contrasts to argumentum ad hominem attacks which, I am sure you know, is one form of many in logical fallacies. While I have no problems with this, it tends to detract from the debate.

Disagreeing without being disagreeable (my intent),
netwrkranger

Last edited by netwrkranger : 03-27-2008 at 10:56 AM.
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  #28  
Old 03-27-2008, 11:56 AM
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weishaupt1776 weishaupt1776 is offline
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Rottweiler, your argument is not with Jerry, it's with the WORD:
Quote:
1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


There's still time for you to reconsider your position
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  #29  
Old 03-27-2008, 01:19 PM
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There is only one true God.

Divine Messiah predicted in the Old Testament
Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”

“Immanuel” literally means: “God with us.” (See also Matthew 1:23: Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.)

This Messiah would be born a human son, but have a higher nature
Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

This was a radical statement coming from a monotheistic Jewish prophet -- especially calling a human being “Mighty God”; but one that God fulfilled centuries later in Christ.

A couple hundred years later, but still more than half a millennium before Jesus walked the earth, more was predicted about the Messiah’s divine nature
Daniel 7:13-14: “There before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven . . . He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”

“Son of Man” was the primary title Jesus used for Himself -- and this passage shows that this was a clear and strong claim of deity. And in Mark, the earliest of the four Gospels, He also included the unmistakable phrase, “coming on the clouds of heaven” and applied it to Himself (Mark 14:62). His listeners got the point, refused to believe it, and added it to their reasons to try to kill Him.

Jesus is God – His Earthly Ministry

The baby Jesus worshiped by the Magi
Matthew 2:11: “On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him.”

Along with being led to the site where Jesus was born, these Magi were apparently informed by God about Jesus’ divine identity, and so they responded appropriately by worshiping Him.

Jesus accepted worship from His disciples
Matthew 14:32-33: “And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’”

In a Jewish culture, only the one true God can be worshiped; their actions show that they acknowledged Jesus as being divine. And Jesus didn’t correct them or say, “Don’t you realize that I’m just a mortal prophet? Stop worshiping me!” Rather, He accepted their worship, knowing He really was God in human flesh.


Jesus’ claim about Himself
John 8:58-59: "‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.”

This is a powerful double claim from Jesus: first, that He pre-existed His human birth and was actually alive and present (as God) before Abraham; second, that His title was “I am” -- which was the same title used for Jehovah God in Exodus 3:14. His listeners again got the point, and picked up stones to execute Him!


Another of Jesus’ claims of deity
John 10:30-33: “‘I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’”

It couldn’t be clearer than it is here: Jesus’ highly educated listeners understood His claim of deity. They only had two possible responses: to humble themselves and bow before Him as the Magi and the disciples had done earlier, or reject His claim and judge Him as a blasphemer. Unfortunately they chose the latter option. But notice that Jesus doesn’t argue with their accusation, because it was accurate. He really was claiming to be God!

Thomas’ response to the resurrected Jesus
John 20:27-29: “Then He said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.’ Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’"

This disciple realized, because of Jesus’ resurrection, who Jesus really was -- and humbly worshiped Him and declared His true identity: “My Lord and my God!” Jesus not only accepts this declaration, but blesses all of the disciples -- and all of us today -- who come to the same realization and place of humble worship.
http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/jesus-is-god.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by weishaupt1776
Rottweiler, your argument is not with Jerry, it's with the WORD:


There's still time for you to reconsider your position
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  #30  
Old 03-27-2008, 01:58 PM
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rottweiler rottweiler is offline
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Jesus is God and the Koran confirms it for those who will humble themselves before God. Since you can't do that you are lost searching for some Prime creator, whatever that is. If you had found him you could tell me about him like I tell you about my God.

You have taken a spiritual term "Son of God" and applied it literally. That is a mistake. There is only one true God.

How can the "Son of Man" be also the "Son of God"? That's sounds impossible to me unless we are talking Euphemisms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by netwrkranger
You should qualify your statements:

Jesus is God (for you). The Koran confirms this (for you). It appears to me you have changed from using third party sources to using the source itself.

The allegation of being pagan: Define the analytical definition of 'pagan'. If that is an offense, then it is between myself and the Prime Creator. Other people have no interest in that contract.

The statement of mine which you claim is a lie: to whom or what is it contradicting?

Am I searching for God? Yes, but I am searching for God (i.e. the connection to Prime Creator) within me rather than externalized worship.

I've noticed your arguments have switched from debating claims, evidences, merits, comparisons, and contrasts to argumentum ad hominem attacks which, I am sure you know, is one form of many in logical fallacies. While I have no problems with this, it tends to detract from the debate.

Disagreeing without being disagreeable (my intent),
netwrkranger
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