Are You A Good Person?

[iamfreeru2]

if i sin once in my lifetime i have fallen short of the perfection that God demands. yet since God demands perfection how can I be more than perfect to make up for even 1 imperfect act? i can't.

Thanks Fresh Pastry

PANICPASS I know you do not believe in YHWH from your own addmission but I submit the following to you anyway:

Since we cannot be perfect and sinless, only Yeshua was perfect as God/man. YHWH sent his Son, Yeshua, to pay the price for us. This is the only way mankind could be saved. Eph 2:8,9 "For grace you are saved through faith (faith in what? In Christ and Him only), and this is not from yourselves; It is YHWH's gift (there is nothing I can do on my own to earn salvation , because I could never do enough) - not from works that no one can boast (if we are to boast, boast in the Lord for He did it all for us).

You see many people think they can work their way to heaven and that is impossible. With a sin nature it is impossible to choose YHWH. He must choose us, because we lack the capacity in our sin nature to do so. Yeshua said in John 18:19 "Why do you call Me good?' Yeshua asked him. 'No one is good but One - YHWH." Now if this be true, which it is because YHWH says so, then none of us are good. If none of us are good and because of that we cannot acheive perfection, then we need a savior to do it for us. That is why YHWH came to this earth in the form of a man yet still God, Yeshua, to save His people from their sin. First you must believe that YHWH is (Heb 11:6) and then have faith that He is able to do what he says He will do (Heb 11:1).

The Scrptures say in Romans 10:9,10 "If you confess with your mouth, 'Yeshua is Lord,' and believe in your heart that YHWH raised him from the dead, you will be saved. With the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation." The gospel of Christ is this; "Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." If one does not believe this and dies then that one dies in their sin and is forever separated from YHWH in the Lake of Fire that is reserved for satan and his demons.

My home is in heaven. You too can have the assurance I have. It is a matter of trusting the only one that can give you that assurance. Do it today before it is too late. It is not about what I say, but what our creator has said in His word. You either believe He is YHWH (God) or you don't it is that simple. No one can ever force anyone to choose YHWH, but think about the conciquences of your choice if it is not YHWH and you are wrong. Do you want to take that chance? Think about it.

[PANICPASS]

Panic & FreshPastry, If you guys sincerely felt taken advantage of, it was not my intention to defraud you in any way & I hope that you didn't suffer a loss or damage of any kind.

Yes, I am suffering and damaged. So now how are you going to pay, Weis?
I want to be compensated, you devil you.

Have you heard of the event that took place so that we wouldn't have to suffer for Eternity in the Lake of Fire?

I don't mind suffering for Eternity in the Lake of Fire. I really don't mind. Let me go. I want to go.

Originally Posted by weishaupt1776

Our flawed sin nature inherited at birth is what deceives us into thinking that we are basically good people when the Word says that there is only One who is good. Us thinking that we are good when God says we're not is called

• Self-Righteousness

. The deception permeates society to where the difference between man's view of good & what God's view is has become clouded to where there has to be a logical way of explaining that truth.
Asking someone if they consider themselves to be good is asking their view.
Asking if they've kept the 10 Commandments is God's view.
Asking if God was to judge them on the basis of their obedience to the 10 commandments presents God's Righteousness & Our Guilt.

Panic & FreshPastry, If you guys sincerely felt taken advantage of, it was not my intention to defraud you in any way & I hope that you didn't suffer a loss or a damage of any kind.

FreshPastry, did you read through each thread to come to the conclusion that i bait & switched/deceived?

Or did you make that statement because it is an opinion of yours that this approach is too abrasive, confrontational, etc . . .?

I talk about sin, righteuosness, judgement day, Heaven, Hell; Yeshua's Death, Burial, Resurrection, ascension, & Session all the time with people witout pissing them off. Unless the people, some of whom I don't even know, are timid & don't complain of me deceiving them; I have never been accused of such.

Is that an arbitrary opinion that i was being deceptive or that I bait & switched?

Were you personally deceived by this thread?

Did you feel baited at first by relying on a misrepresentation by me only to realize it was a trick.

Find the posts where I started the baiting, then misrepresented, & then switched it up in order to deceive.

If you felt personally taken advantage of, tell me at what point were you baited, at what point did you rely on a misrepresentation, and at what point I switched it up on you where you realized the fraud.

http://forum.suijuris.net/showpost.p...28&postcount=9

So is this point at which I was being deceptive? FreshPastry & PANIC, is that an arbitrary opinion that i was being deceptive?

http://forum.suijuris.net/showpost.p...4&postcount=38
I believe it was here where I made my point regarding man's standard of what he thinks is good versus what God's standard is.

I don't know about you, but I believe that I communiated some pretty good news here.
http://forum.suijuris.net/showpost.p...8&postcount=44

Another thread in which I communicated more of the point of the purpose of the 10 commandments & man's standard versus God's standard.
http://forum.suijuris.net/showpost.p...8&postcount=47

Another post regarding the purpose of the polarity between God's goodness & our goodness
http://forum.suijuris.net/showpost.p...2&postcount=56

Weis tells panic the purpose of the thread.
http://forum.suijuris.net/showpost.p...6&postcount=76

If it is not an arbitrary opinion that I bait & switched/deceived , then is it based on facts currently with in your knowledge?

If so, then
When?
How?
Why?

Is it evident that some one was deceived & baited only to have it switched up on them?

In fact, anybody that was baited & deceived please post here & list your grievance.

Okay, PANIC, on to the good news:

Have you heard of the event that took place so that we wouldn't have to suffer for Eternity in the Lake of Fire?

my my what a large defense to have erected over so small an observation hardly an accusation. sure it seemed a little disingenuous in #9 where you proclaim you have no motive other than curiosity but it is clear to anyone else reading that you had an agenda and are clearly moving the thread toward it. you may call it an arbitrary opinion if you want. loss and damage? lets not go overboard sweetie i have no problem with you. *smooch*

panic, do you really believe in a lake of fire or are you just toying and humoring the peeps here?

hum, i hear bon bons in the next room calling me. buh bye.

[weishaupt1776]

Regarding disingenuity in post #9, I was & still curious about peoples' responses as to whether or not they consider themselves "good" in the eso & exoteric sense of the word. Did you see Camino's response? Totally different than anyone elses. Panic's demurrers were pretty cool, too. I learn something new every time.

Not only am I curious about mankind's self righteousness(myself included), but I am genuinely concened about the*eternãl*destiny øf one's soul. So if I mapped out the whole thing from start to finish in one thread, it would have required a bunch of reading & not given people enough time to think or ponder each of the concepts that were outlined over the past few weeks

Are you implying that because I didn't mesh all of the posts in this thread in one shot, then I was being intentionally "not entirely forthcoming"?

imfree, way to tell somebody about the Good News, my brother.

[weishaupt1776]

All of us are guilty of breaking the Ten Commandments & are guilty before the Righteous Judge.
Have you ever lied?
Then that makes you guilty of being or having have been a liar.
Have you ever stolen?
Then you would be guilty of being or having have been a thief.
Have you ever even looked with lust?
Well Yeshua expressed that God equates just looking lustfully with commiting adultery.
Even if you did just one of those once, it would be the same thing as a bank robber just robbing one bank, but the evidence being dug up 5 years later to prove that he was a thief.
So if God the Father & Yeshua were to judge you or me by our obedience to the 10 Commandments, would we be innocent or guilty?
We would be guilty
If the ruling for perfect, flawless obedience was eternal life, but the sentence for disobedience was punishment in the eternal lake of fire, where would we go?
If we were found guilty in our sins on Judgement day, we would all be separated from God for eternity in the Lake of Fire.
Does that Concern you in the least?
If it does, then there is Good News. The Lord Yeshua pleased God the Father's rigorous requirements for Eternal Life by obeying every one of His commandments, which no man has or will be able to do.
Yeshua, His Son also suffered the penalty which we deserved & God the Father took out His full wrath on Yeshua by having Him nailed to a Cross fro the Sins of Mankind--Past, Present, & Future.
Three days later, Yeshua rose from the dead as one victorious over death. The result & penalty for sin is eternal death in the lake of fire, but God's Gift is eternal Life through Yeshua.
Since Christ resurrected, he wasn't guilty of sinning. He would have been punished just like us if he had sinned even just once. Since He was not guilty, he rose from the dead, ascended into the Third Heaven, and is now alive & seated at the right Hand of The Father as the one with full authority to Grant Eternal Life.
Eternal Life cannot be obtained by good works. He can only grant it as a Gift to be received & not a reward to be earned or worked for. Say that if a serial killer kills one day, but then feeds the hungry the next day; he would still be a murderer.
So good works do not clean up our dirty record or could ever outweigh our flawed sin nature inherited at birth.
Yeshua will grant you the Gift of Eternal life at the exact moment you decide to trust in, cling to, & rely upon Him as your Crucifed Sin Bearer & Resurrected Savior.

[sadie]

I believe I am basically a good person - flawed - not perfect

Yes, I have - broken many of the 10 commandments
since I am a human being and not a perfect being

Does that make me a "bad" person? Does it make me an "evil" person?
By whose definition?

Or does it make me merely imperfect - human?

What is the difference between BAD and EVIL?
Is there a difference?

Panic did not say God is the universe. The universe is a finite thing. Panic says God is existence. I agree with that. I think even God agrees with that
" I Am, Who Am " The Alpha and Omega - The beginning and the end

What would be the beginning and the end of everything - the source of everything that exists? It would be existence itself.

God did not say I am a person. Man says God is a person. Jesus is the personification of GOD.

Even science with the big bang theory - that only shows one possible method of the creation of the universe (the finite thing) not creation itself.

Even all the quotes here from the bible (thank you all for those) - many of you have posted to show how works don't count. " Jesus said go and sin no more - he didn't say go and do good works"

Jesus replaced the 10 commandments when he imparted to us the 2 great commandments - Love God with your whole heart, your whole mind and your whole soul and Love your neighbor as yourself Matt 22:37-39

If God is existence, then you must love existence - existing - being - as a person this would be life. Matt. 22:32 God is not the God of the dead but of the living.

So you would not DO you would just BE. Not good, bad, judgmental whatever. Just exist and enjoy existing. And share this enjoyment of life - existing - with everyone else.

First you love God - existence - BEing, then you love yourself so that you do, behave, act in a manner that brings about your best, happiest, joyest BEing, then you would be able to bring this love of God and love of yourself to
others.

Therefore, if everyone would just BE in this manner then we would have the "kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven" (the realm of existence)

The bible is an historical record of God's instruction to us as to how to BE and how many numerous times we failed at getting the message and tried to bring GOd down to our mere mortal level. Finally God had to become personified in Jesus ( get down to our kindergarten level ) to show us in the flesh, in concrete tangible terms we could possibly comprehend, how to rise above the mere body and tap in to our hearts, souls and minds to understand God - BEing - existence.

Jesus - I am the Way ..... he that believes in me shall never die
Jesus showed us the Way to completely BE - live - reach God - exist

All the picky details and trials, tests, evils, God turned his back etc. are only our one demension - body perceptions and childish lack of understanding of
God's Plan - God's will (for us to reach complete existence)

God is not testing us, punishing us. We do that to ourselves. God just IS

[weishaupt1776]

Everyone is a sinner, less perfect than YHVH God.

• "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of YHVH" Rom. 3:23.

The Virgin Mary, the Pope, your minister, your mother, you and I...all are sinners.

• "Ecc 7:20 Surely there is not a righteous man on eretz, who does good and doesn't sin."
  
• Isa 64:6 For we are all become as one who is unclean, and all our righteousness are as a polluted garment: and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away."

. You might compare your life with that of a murderer and you might feel you are a good person; and, by man's standard of goodness, you may be. Do you notice the phrase underlined above, "our righteousness"? There is YHVH's perfect righteousness, and our righteousness which, when compared w/ YHVH is as filthy as a menstration cloth in his sight.

Now compare your best qualities by which you may consider yourself basically good with those of the Almighty YHVH?

Are you as perfect as YHVH, now?
Is anybody?

The word, "sin", is "hamartano" in the Greek, and means to "miss the mark". Do you miss the mark of YHVH's perfection? I do.
When the Bible says we are sinners, it means even "good" people, because even they are not perfect.You may be very moral, and that is great, but do you realize that no one could ever be perfect in YHVH's sight? (Isa. 64:6 above &

• Jam 2:10** For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Have you not sinned since you were a kid?

• I John 1:8 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Besides missing the mark of His absolute perfection, sin is also known as :

• 1Jo 3:4*Everyone who sins also commits lawlessness. Sin is lawlessness.

So what is this law that we keep breaking & can't quit offending even on our best week?
It is the 10 commandments in Exodus 20

1st Commandment
Exd 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

• Putting yourself first before YHVH & acting on one of your own thoughts & not one of God's thoughts.

2nd Commandment:
Exd 20:4 "You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the eretz beneath, or that is in the water under the eretz:

• Pursuing money more than YHVH
• Giving more attention to work more than God

3rd commandment:
Exd 20:7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

• Being disgusted & using the YHVH's name as a cuss word to express disgust

You get the picture, we've gone through other commandments as well.

So why did Our Lord Creator Savior YHVH establish a Law no one could keep? Well, because of our inherent pride which makes us exalt ourselves above YHVH, He needed to show us with our stubborness exactly how short we fall of perfection in order to see that we need some one to pay the penalty instead of suffering for it ourselves:

• Gal 3:10* For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse. For it is written, "Cursed is everyone who doesn't continue in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them."

See, if we seek to be justified before YHVH by following the Law or hoping that our good deeds outweigh our bad ones, then we are doomed, because we are unable to continue in ALL things in the Law.

• Gal 3:11** Now that no man is justified by the law before YHVH is evident, for, "The righteous will live by faith."

Since our own righteousness is filthy when compared to God's we need to be made righteous in the eyes of YHVH another way.

• Gal 3:12** The law is not of faith, but, "The man who does them will live by them."

If you seek to be justified by the law, you are putting faith in your own flawed, imperfect efforts instead of putting your trust & reliance in the Death & resurrection of Yeshua as your payment for your penalty.

• Gal 3:13** Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,"

Instead of us suffering the curse which is a result of sin, Yeshua stood in our place as a substitute sin-bearer on our behalf.

• Gal 3:23** But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, shut up to the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Everyone is born missing the mark of God's perfection, and God promises to save those who trust in Yeshua's payment for the penalty of us being natural born sinners.

• Gal 3:24** So that the law has become our tutor to bring us to Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.

Before ever trusting in Yeshua, we think salvation is based on our good deeds and how well we are keeping the law.

• Gal 3:25** But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor.

The law shows how short we fall of perfection, so that we see our need of Christ as Saviour. The Law is a rigid schoolmaster who doesn't let up.

• Gal 3:26** For you are all sons of God, through faith in Messiah Yeshua.

When you trust in Christ by faith, the law had served its purpose. It is done away with as far as you are now concerned (IICor 3:6-11)

[weishaupt1776]

Rom 6:23

• For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Messiah Yeshua our Lord.

The result & penalty of sin, or transgressing the law, is both physical death & spiritual death.

In order to understand this we have to digress & start at a Biblical view of creation:

• Gen 1:1*In the beginning God created the heavens and the eretz.

So far you have all the components for what our universe is made of: Time, Power, Space, & Matter. What about motion?

• Gen 1:2** Now the eretz was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep. God's Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters.

One thing missing though. Energy anyone?

• Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Science confirms the validity of the Biblical record of the components of our universe.

Is there scientific evidence observed today which proves that a species can turn into another species? There is only speculation. There are no transitional forms in the fossil record after millions of years which show a species turning into another species. After millions of years, wouldn't you think that we would find an overwhelming amount of ape-man skeletons or fish-amphibian fossils? We observe today a species only being able to reproduce when mating within their own species. If a Horse mates w/ a donkey, you get a Mule which can't reproduce:

• Gen 1:24"Let the eretz bring forth living creatures after their kind, cattle, creeping things, and animals of the eretz after their kind," and it was so.

Everything recorded as what God created was followed with, "God saw that it was good." Why would God make something flawed or corrupted? What kind of God would that be?

• Gen 1:31**God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

Human pigmentation contains the exact same 14 elements as dirt from the ground:

• Gen 2:7** The LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, . . .

Besides flesh, man has a spirit which is constituted of the faculties of conscience, intuition, and the desire to commune with & worship God. The conscience is an inborn sense of knowing right from wrong. The intuition is instinctive knowledge that no-one taught you (i.e. common sense).
We all instinctively cry out for a higher spiritual experience which is outside of ourselves and this world.

• . . ."and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;'

The combination of physical flesh & spirit constitutes man's soul. The soul is our mind, will, & emotions. In other words, our thoughts, feelings, and actions we choose to do as result of our mind &/or emotions:

• " . . .and man became a living soul."

[b]So God created the progenitors of the human race with an untainted Spirit in which they knew right from wrong, and had uncorrupted thoughts, emotions, & will. The thing is, God did not make automaton robots who were programmed to just choose Him. Although man was made uncorrupted, He was made with the ability to choose or the will. Man was made with the ability to choose life or choose death:

• Gen 2:9** Out of the ground the LORD God made every tree . . . the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

There was one & only one prohibition God gave to the first man & first woman:

• Gen 2:17** but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat of it you will surely die."

God created Adam & Eve with the original intent of a race that would live forever with Him in an uncorrupted universe. It clearly was not His intention for man to make the wrong choice. If man were programmed to choose God, mankind would have no will, thus not really having the capacity to sincerely love & trust God.

[weishaupt1776]

There's always someone that spoils a good thing.

• Gen 3:1** Now the serpent was more subtle than any animal of the field which the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Yes, has God said, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden?'"

So the spirit known as Satan started his deception of Eve by attacking the faculty of the mind by getting her to question God's Command.
For an understanding of how Satan came up with the idea of rebelling against God all on his own without any help from God or anyone read Isaiah 14:12 & Ezekiel 28:13

• Gen 3:2** The woman said to the serpent, "Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat,
  Gen 3:3** but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'"

Eve, at this point, makes three mistakes.

• The first being that she is conversing with Satan
• The second being that she changes what God said
• The third being that she reacted with the wrong emotion

Regarding the combination of the second & third points, God never said not to touch it! God warns us very sternly throughout scripture NOT to add to or take way from His word at the risk of some very serious consequences. She reacted emotionally by coming off all puffy like "God is some kind of taskmaster that won't let me do what I want"

Now, Satan figures that he has 2/3 of her soul conqered, being both her mind & emotions. All he has to do is get her to choose act on her deceived thoughts & feelings:

• Gen 3:4** The serpent said to the woman, "You won't surely die, . . .'

See, he just outright lies and says to Eve the complete opposite thing which God commanded. Look at the false promise which continues to plunge man into deception today:

• Gen 3:5** for God knows that in the day you eat it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Spiritual deception starts when we think that we could ever be like God. If you read the links to Isaiah 14 & Ezekiel 28 above, you saw that Satan tried to exalt himself above God & failed. We weren't created to ever know evil. Knowing evil sears our conscience by us choosing to do the wrong thing without even thinking about it & affects our intuition in that we have this innate sense of evil knowledge. Those 2 comprise 2/3 of our spirit which God breathed into us UNCORRUPTED and once those are corrupted, our ability & desire to want to know, love, worship, & commune with the Creator is severely damaged.
Part of the New Age spiritual deception up to these days is "open your eyes, you can be like God".
So the wrong choice was eventually made by both adam & Eve as a result of them allowing their minds, emotions, conscience, & intuition being deceived by Satan:

• Gen 3:6** When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit of it, and ate; and she gave some to her husband with her, and he ate.

Now, they had the sin of shame by realizing that they were naked:

• Gen 3:7** Both of their eyes were opened, and they knew that they were naked. . . "

They tried to cover up their sin & shame through their own futile efforts:

• " . . .They sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

Now that they had sin on them, the Word of God was unappealing & they were averse to the Truth:

• Gen 3:8** They heard the voice of the LORD . . . and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

God now curses Satan again:

• Gen 3:14** The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you . .

Now check this out. YHVY God promises that a seed of woman will overcome & destroy Satan's rebellion:

• Gen 3:15** I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will bruise your head, and you will bruise his heel."

Look at what the consequences of their original sin has reaped:

• Gen 3:16** To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth. In pain you will bring forth children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

Childbirth was not meant to be so painful and men were'nt made to be these despotic tyrants over their wife.
Now, If that ain't bad enough, check out the curses bonus round:

• Gen 3:17** To Adam he said, " . . . I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it,' cursed is the ground for your sake. In toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.

The earth & ground is degrading more & more each year as a result of natural law, not just human occupancy & pollution. In toil means that it's not going to be easy livin' from here on out as it was in the Garden of Eden unless some type of divine intervention occurs.

• Gen 3:18** Thorns also and thistles will it bring forth to you;

Weeds and other plants which destroy productive plantlife are a result of the curse due to the fall of mankind.

• Gen 3:19** "By the sweat of your face will you eat bread . . ."

Yup, because of the fall, we've gotta break our ass to get by in this world & deal with alphabet soup agencies & other bureaucratic monsters.

• " . . until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For you are dust, and to dust you shall return."

That's not how it was meant to be. We were made to commune with God forever

Mankinds fig leaves represents man's futile efforts to cover up his sin nature by trying to do good deeds to merit eternal salvation. God's covering with animal skins represents God way of covering man's sin & shame brought on man by man.

• Gen 3:21** The LORD God made coats of skins for Adam and for his wife, and clothed them.

Now this is a loaded verse. Notice that "God" is in the singular meaning one singular God. But what about the word, "us"? Could it be that One God is expressed in more than one person & recorded in the first book of the Bible written in 1500 B.C.?

• Gen 3:22** The LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. . . ."

If the choice was made to eat of the tree of life, then sin, curses on the earth, and physical death would never have ever happened:

• ". . . Now, lest he put forth his hand, and also take of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever..."

[wirlwind]

Weis,

I enjoy your posts very much. They are very informative, and I feel Spirit-filled. I don't think the problem is your posts, but possibly some other people's perception (conviction?) when they read them. You remember how threatening coming under conviction was- don't you? The power of the Spirit is in your posts. Don't aplogize, and don't change them.