"A Time to Kill" vs "Though Shall Not Kill"

[BoyntonStu]

"A Time to Kill" vs "Though Shall Not Kill"

Ecclesiastes 3:3
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

Christians incorrectly translate the Hebrew words "THOUGH SHALL NOT MURDER" to "Though Shall not KILL".


Why are Christians continuing to replicate this translation error?

Why do Christians allow themselves to misquote God?

Why do Christians stand by when people needlessly die because of the error?

I rest my case.

BoyntonStu

[iamfreeru2]

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

"A Time to Kill" vs "Though Shall Not Kill"

Ecclesiastes 3:3
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

Christians incorrectly translate the Hebrew words "THOUGH SHALL NOT MURDER" to "Though Shall not KILL".


Why are Christians continuing to replicate this translation error?

Why do Christians allow themselves to misquote God?

Why do Christians stand by when people needlessly die because of the error?

I rest my case.

BoyntonStu

You are taking this out of context. This is not referring to the Ten Camandments. In the Ten Commandments when God's word says thow shall not murder that is what He means. Ecclesiastes 3: 3 is not talking about the same thing. My Bible, which is the NASB (New American Standard Bible) uses the word murder in the Ten Commandments (See Exodus 20) because that is what it is referred to in the ancient writings that have been uncovered and must be put into the context of what it being said.

I am a Christian and know the difference. To kill is not the same as murder. To kill could be in self defense, where as to murder is planned and in cold blood. To kill also means to have food by killing animals eat. Do not take things out of context and accuse Christians of misinterpreting the Scriptures. Obviously if you knew what was meant by putting things into context you would not make that statement.

iamfreeru2

1. Re translations of the Bible: This is where the "flock" is at the mercy of the "shepards," just as "citizens" are at the mercy of "leaders." The "average" Christian not only is NOT going to study the thing for himself, but usually lacks the resources (quickly changing due to internet--hoooray!). So believers "trust" their teachers just like Americans "trust" their leaders. (Not a good thing. Church "leaders" have agendas, just like politicians.)

2. Human capacity for rationalization: Christians are taught to "obey" and "respect" authority. End result: "Killing" is okay for governments, but killing by individuals is "murder" and therefore wrong. God empowers the Jewish nation (as in OT times) to kill Gentiles making "killing" okay under certain circumstances," and so forth.

But all this--and obviously quite more--leads to the same ol' problems of written "word" versus "word" written on one's heart. The very first time one changes one's conviction of what the written word says because of closer study and scrutiny (as in deeper study of original texts and languages and meanings), the fabric of one's theological convictions begins to fall apart.

Questions naturally arise (never, ever a bad thing). Doubts arise. Doubts, we're told (wrongly so, in my opinion) are antithetical to faith. Apostasy results--apostasy from religion and theology, not necessarily one's "faith."

Personally, I love the passage in Ecclessiates. It begs the question:

IF there is indeed a time "for" this and that, when "this" and "that" are in clear contradiction of each other, who is that decides WHEN this and that occur?

Answer: You/I must decide. We decide when to plant, when to sow. You/I decide when to kill, when to heal.

Threaten my family with physical harm and THAT becomes "time to kill."

As always, however, all such admonitions are positively pregnant with the understanding of the resolve to accept the consequences for one's actions.

Randy

[BoyntonStu]

"I am a Christian and know the difference. To kill is not the same as murder."

That being the case (I totally agree) why are most versions of the Commandment mistranslated?

Why do Christians allow the error?

Some Christians are confused to the point of dying. Did you know that?


BoyntonStu

Anyone here ever read Claire Wolfe, or heard her famous quote?

"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

I think that quote has outlived it's applicability...

*************************


I agree, Killing and murder are two different things.
.
.
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from HenryBowman
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

Wow. Never heard that one! Thanks for posting it. And I agree:

I think that quote has outlived it's applicability...

Randy

Originally Posted by BoyntonStu

"A Time to Kill" vs "Though Shall Not Kill"

Ecclesiastes 3:3
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

Christians incorrectly translate the Hebrew words "THOUGH SHALL NOT MURDER" to "Though Shall not KILL".


Why are Christians continuing to replicate this translation error?

Why do Christians allow themselves to misquote God?

Why do Christians stand by when people needlessly die because of the error?

I rest my case.

BoyntonStu

Hello Stu: This is indeed quite an observation on your part; and accurate also, in regard to the wrong translation.

Your statement as well as your questions bear upon all of us one other interesting observation on my part. I noticed in all of the above writing that was committed by you, you have indicated in each, that the error was at the hand of Christians. You state this in a manner of implying a 'matter of fact', and also in the singular class as though Christians are the only humans that have committed these errors.

This matter of fact perspective that you are displaying, would indicate to me that you are not among those that have committed this error. Stu, let me ask you one question. Were you born with this knowledge, or is it something that you have recently learned?

IF you were not born with that knowledge, then you also would be included in the misdeed of incorrect translation up to the point in time when you learned the difference in that language. IF, in fact you were not born with that knowledge and it is something you have learned, then that in itself would give answer to your first question; People replicate this translation error, because they have not learned the difference.

IF you were not born with this knowledge and it is something you learned then that would also give answer to your second question; People misquote God because they do not realize that they are doing so. They are unlearned and ignorant of what they are doing. There is a passage of scripture that reads "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". If a People will take the time to dissect the word of God, which is obviously what you have done, then they too will discover error in translation and will discover other such mistranslations.

As for your third question. I am given to not fully understanding the question with regard to how it relates to mistranslation. Can you give an explicit example of how 'people needlessly die because of the error'? I am not quite certain of what you are attempting to ask!

Jerry

[BoyntonStu]

Originally Posted by jerrypitts

Hello Stu: This is indeed quite an observation on your part; and accurate also, in regard to the wrong translation.

Your statement as well as your questions bear upon all of us one other interesting observation on my part. I noticed in all of the above writing that was committed by you, you have indicated in each, that the error was at the hand of Christians. You state this in a manner of implying a 'matter of fact', and also in the singular class as though Christians are the only humans that have committed these errors.

This matter of fact perspective that you are displaying, would indicate to me that you are not among those that have committed this error. Stu, let me ask you one question. Were you born with this knowledge, or is it something that you have recently learned?

IF you were not born with that knowledge, then you also would be included in the misdeed of incorrect translation up to the point in time when you learned the difference in that language. IF, in fact you were not born with that knowledge and it is something you have learned, then that in itself would give answer to your first question; People replicate this translation error, because they have not learned the difference.

IF you were not born with this knowledge and it is something you learned then that would also give answer to your second question; People misquote God because they do not realize that they are doing so. They are unlearned and ignorant of what they are doing. There is a passage of scripture that reads "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". If a People will take the time to dissect the word of God, which is obviously what you have done, then they too will discover error in translation and will discover other such mistranslations.

As for your third question. I am given to not fully understanding the question with regard to how it relates to mistranslation. Can you give an explicit example of how 'people needlessly die because of the error'? I am not quite certain of what you are attempting to ask!

Jerry

Jerry,

Thank you for your most reasoned response.

First, and most importantly, why the 'kill' error kills.

I have met several men brought up in their churches to "Not Kill". Some of these fellows were sons of ministers. When they were drafted into the military they refused to carry rifles because they would not 'kill'. They became medics and/or conscientious objectors. Some of them were shot and others were killed because of the error in their minds and their refusal to defend themselves.

I study the Bible. I learned that the Hebrew Bible was the original and that the Jewish people translated the word as MURDER. Seeing the obvious difference between the Catholic and Protestant versions I was confused. Thus my search for the truth began. Why live with errors about God's words?

It is really interesting to speak to folks that insist on defending the error. Why? I cannot imagine.

You might ask, "What other errors exist in Christian Bibles that comes from mistranslating the original Hebrew?

Here's a little teaser. What ficticious animal is mentioned 9 times in the KJV of the Bible? (another mistranslation error)


The point to remember is that there is no "The Bible" and no "The Ten Commandments". One must be more specific because the word "THE" is a very misleading word.

BoyntonStu

[iamfreeru2]

I do not believe it is a mistranslation, but a simple fact of not being interpreted correctly. When you study the Scriptures you will know what God meant if you truly know Him. Just because one reads the Bible does not make a Christian. The interpretaion comes from the Holy Spirit that has been given to all believers. Without the Holy Spirit it is impossible to know God or His word. Just because the KJV says kill does not mean that it is a mistranslation. Like I have already said it must be put into context. This is where a lot of people have their problems. I do not see this as error and I know the difference between kill and murder.

Quote from BoyntonStu:
"Some Christians are confused to the point of dying. Did you know that?"

Those that are confused may not be Christians. Are you aware of that? Remember that God is not the author of confusion. Satan is!!

Quote from Randy:
"1. Re translations of the Bible: This is where the "flock" is at the mercy of the "shepards," just as "citizens" are at the mercy of "leaders." The "average" Christian not only is NOT going to study the thing for himself, but usually lacks the resources (quickly changing due to internet--hoooray!). So believers "trust" their teachers just like Americans "trust" their leaders. (Not a good thing. Church "leaders" have agendas, just like politicians.)"

This is part of the problem. God's word says: "Now these were more nobleminded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so." Acts 17:11. Matthew 24:24 says: "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect." This is one reason, we as believers, should be searching the Scriptures daily so that these false Christs and prophets may be exposed. There are many that profess to be Christians and mislead the flock. How do you guard against this? By knowing the word of God. Can an unbeliever know the word of God? 1 Corinthians 2:14 says: "But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." vs.15 "But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man." vs 16 "For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE SHOULD INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ." How do we have the mind of Christ. By asking for forgiveness and receiving Him into our lives. Once this happens, then and only then, can we know.

Rather than condemn a brother or sister, why not instruct them and teach them in the knowledge of God. 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 says: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." We need to be praying first for those that are misinformed and then we need to teach them the ways of God through His word, not judging or condemning. Remembering that once we were lost in trespass and sin.

iamfreeru2

Good ; excellent.

Jerry