
01-23-2005, 06:09 AM
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I did, but you would not believe them... so if you are so stuck on the being chosen mentallity, can you answer why would God choose or draw you or me to to serve Him and not the millions lost and deceived?
Also, my brother who is currently doing time in the High Dessert Prison out in Susanville, CA, was given many many opportunities to get baptized, but the repented not. So did God draw/choose him?
more questions/comments below:
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Originally Posted by iamfreeru2
The term "free will" is used alot by those that say we have free choice. I still have not seen it in YHWH's word. Please point me to where this is used in Scripture. This is a man made term.
This is where you are wrong in your thinking. You cannot be a disciple unless you are a believer and are called.Luke 16:30,31 "But he said, 'No, Father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent! But he said to him, If they do not listen to Moaes and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead." Listen to what this is saying. Miracles do not save anyone and will never convince those that do not want convincing. There are many people that do not [b]bwant[\b] to be saved and never will be.
<aren't you admitting that we have free will here?>
YHWH knows all even the thoughts of man and yes,
<He knows our hearts, and hears our prayers, but our choices don't always reflect our hearts, therefore we have guilt>
even the decisions we will make before we make them.
<sound more like a controlling dictator, wouldn't need to create us, just get to the point and burn the ones he wants or knows would follow Him and take the rest to his kingdom... if you believe this, there's gotta be doubt creeping in at times asking, "then what the heck are we here for?" Another question, if God knows everyone's decisions, why did He pick Sol to be king then repented his decision then picked David after? Wouldn't He know Sol would not be fit in the first place?>
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01-23-2005, 08:39 AM
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Come and Get Some!
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,685
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Originally Posted by bluev103
I did, but you would not believe them... so if you are so stuck on the being chosen mentallity, can you answer why would God choose or draw you or me to to serve Him and not the millions lost and deceived?
Also, my brother who is currently doing time in the High Dessert Prison out in Susanville, CA, was given many many opportunities to get baptized, but the repented not. So did God draw/choose him?
more questions/comments below:
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What you showed me has nothing to do with "free will." YHWH has used the word choose many times in His word to show how it is ipossible to choose Him apart from being drawn to Him. Have you ever heard the term YHWH's chosen people? YHWH chose Irsael and they continued to rebel against Him over and over. They were scattered for there rebelion. Never the less they are chosen of YHWH. YHWH will use His chosen people (144,000) during the tribulation to bring others into the Kingdom.
Take a look at Matthew 24:22 "And unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days were cut short." Tell me what the definition of ellect is. Is it not chosen? Also see Matthew 24:24, Mark 13:22, Luke 18:7, Romans 8:33.
I do not know why YHWH chooses some and not others. It is not my place to question why He does anything. He is YHWH. Isaiah 55:8,9 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways MY ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher that your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts." I do not know the ones that will be saved and neither do you. He calls us to preach the good news and I obey. He does the saving, not me. He knows who will accept and who will not. He knows our innermost thoughts and what we will do before we do it.
As far as your brother is concerned; I do not know him or why he will not come to YHWH. There are some that will not no matter how much you share with them. Also water baptism does not save. Romas 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth Yeshua as Lord, and believe in your heart that YHWH raised Him form the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." Only believers are to be baptized as an outward showing of the faith and trust they have placed in Yeshua's death, burial, and resurection. One does not have to be baptized to go to heaven.
Last edited by iamfreeru2 : 01-23-2005 at 03:59 PM.
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01-24-2005, 04:17 PM
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Come and Get Some!
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,685
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Listen to what this is saying. Miracles do not save anyone and will never convince those that do not want convincing. There are many people that do not want to be saved and never will be.
aren't you admitting that we have free will here?
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What I am saying is that people do not want salvation, due to their sin nature. They will not go to YHWH for salvation. As I have said repeatedly, we must be drawn (chosen) first (John 6:44). That verse is pretty clear.
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He knows our hearts, and hears our prayers, but our choices don't always reflect our hearts, therefore we have guilt
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Guilt or not there are some that will not come to YHWH. A case in point is Pharaoh when Moses went to him because I AM sent him to have Pharaoh release His people. What happened with Pharaoh? He hardened his heart to the point whare finally YHWH hardened Pharaoh's heart.
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sound more like a controlling dictator, wouldn't need to create us, just get to the point and burn the ones he wants or knows would follow Him and take the rest to his kingdom... if you believe this, there's gotta be doubt creeping in at times asking, "then what the heck are we here for?" Another question, if God knows everyone's decisions, why did He pick Sol to be king then repented his decision then picked David after? Wouldn't He know Sol would not be fit in the first place?
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Again we do not know who will be saved and YHWH wants believers to preach the gospel. He sees the big plan and has a plan for everything. Romans 8:28 "And we know that YHWH cause all things to work together for good to those who love YHWH, to those who are called according to His purpose." There is a purpose for all things. YHWH knew what was to happen with Sol and David and there was a purpose for it. Sometimes we do not always see the purpose behind why YHWH does certain things, but He has a plan. And His plan is perfect.
Last edited by iamfreeru2 : 01-24-2005 at 04:20 PM.
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