More than One Gospel

[BoyntonStu]

Originally Posted by Randy

The most intelligent thing I ever heard regarding all this (God, etc) was:

"You're guess is as good as mine."

I'm still trying to figure out the more "contemporary" versions of the "Gospel" in contrast to things I've read. Like:

The "gospel of prosperity" in which we're all assured God wants each and every one of us to have all the material wealth and abundance we can stand while, simultaneously of course, this same "God" says that "hardly shall a rich man enter the kindgom of heaven.

Again, I've no problems with "faith." It's "religion" that gets you nowhere.

Besides, isn't the study and examination of all this a certain path to madness?

Eccl. 1:18 18 "For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow."

I simply can't do "this" anymore, "this" meaning pretend like anything short of the love of, and for, my family and friends has any meaning and relevance whatsoever.

Randy

Well said. Honest, sincere, factual.

If Ignorance is Bliss, why would anyone wish for Eternal Bliss?

BoyntonStu

[weishaupt1776]

If you haven't read and studied the original links and posts, I encourage you to do so - rather than get trigger happy and post right away

From http://www.lesfel****.org/lesbk26.html

Originally Posted by les fel****

Jesus never promoted the fact that He had died, and shed His blood. He couldn't do that because it hadn't happened yet. The Twelve certainly didn't understand it because they had no idea that He was going to die and be risen from the dead. We haven't looked at that in a while so let's go back to the Book of Luke, Chapter 18. Sometimes we need to look at some of these older references that we haven't used in a long time to refresh our memories, and it also helps those who have just tuned in recently. And if you think Jesus and the Twelve preached our Gospel, the Gospel that Paul tells us in I Corinthians 15:1-4 saves us, "if we believe that Jesus died for our sins, was buried and rose again," then you had better think again. How could they? In the first place He hadn't died, and in the second place He certainly hadn't been raised from the dead, and in the third place his earthly teaching was confined to Israel (Ref Matthew 10:5-6). Now look what Jesus says in this passage.
Luke 18:31-34
"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, `Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he (speaking of Himself) shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.' (Christ knew it would happen) And they (the Twelve) understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken."

Now isn't it obvious, because at His crucifixion did they just stand there and say, "Hey, don't worry, He's going to be raised from the dead?" But what did they do? They scattered like a bunch of quail, and as far as the eleven were concerned it was all over. He didn't bring in the earthly Kingdom for them, He was dead. And I remind you now, "Where were those disciples on resurrection morning?" Well they certainly weren't at the tomb waiting for Him to come out. Were they? No. But the disciples didn't know, so how could they preach a Gospel based on death, burial, and resurrection? They couldn't because it hadn't happened yet.

Now this Apostle Paul as he defends himself over and over, this is all that he knows, "How that Christ died for the sins of the world, and that He arose from the dead victorious. And by His life and death we're justified from all things." That's the foundation of the Christian faith, it's the foundation for anyone who is going to go to an eternity in the presence of God. To trust anything short of the finished work of the Cross, I'm afraid that those people are doomed to a lost eternity. I've told people over and over that I don't point the finger at anybody. I'll never look at someone and say, "Hey, you're lost." That not my prerogative, because I can't look on anyone's heart, but I can say, "That if Jesus Christ and His finished work of the Cross isn't the foundation of your faith, then you're on pretty shaky ground."

Now let's look at verse 12. Here Paul has involved us in a building process, he's the masterbuilder, he's started the foundation. Now a general run-of-the-mill believer has been building on that foundation for almost 2000 years, and all these believers down through the centuries have been building on this foundation. We are building on this foundation, and we are adding to that building. Now usually when I teach this I liken us to building a wall, laying the mortar, laying the brick, and being meticulous on how we are building, because, after all, our section of the wall is going to be examined by those fiery eyes of the Lord Jesus some day. Now as we embark on our Christian walk, God gives us six materials to build with. Isn't that amazing that He tells us what we can build with. We can use gold, silver and precious stones or we can use hay, wood, and stubble, or a combination of all six, and that is what we as believers are all doing. Now one of the first things I have to remind folks of is this: do you find gold or silver, or precious stones laying just right outside the front door? No! To get them, usually you have to go up into the rough country, and it takes hard work. None of these first three come easy, but hay, wood, and stubble are everywhere, and that's what most Christians are building with because they are too lazy to get up and go out and work for those hard to get materials. Now let's look at it.

I Corinthians 3:12
"Now if any man build upon this foundation (Remember, Christ has to be the foundation, we have to have faith in His finished work of the Cross before we're even given opportunity to add to His building. So the materials we are going to use to build with are) gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; "

[cigs645]

7. The twelve apostles were under the law of Moses and continued to zealously follow the law all of their lives. But Paul taught the Gentiles "... ye are not under the law, but under grace" (Romans 6:14).

Romans 7: 12 Paul says: Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Those 2 scriptures seem to contradict one another but they do not since we know from Isaah: To the Torah and to the Testimony! If they do not speak in agreement with this word, they have no light..." (Isaiah 8:20). John 10:35 tells us the scripture cannot be broken

In Matthew 19:16, Yeshua was asked what must be done to inherit eternal life. His answer: "If you want to enter life, obey the commandments" .

Math 5:19: "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"

Mat5:17-20 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Heb 8:10 Lord: I will put my laws in their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


Paul observed the Sabbath just like everyone did in those days, using the lunar calendar not the Roman calendar/ Their days began at sunset and ended the following sunset. The emperor Constantine changed that. none of the twelve or Paul did that. There are warnings in the scriptures about following the traditons of men Mat 15:6 6 So, for the sake of your tradition, you make void the word of God.Mark 7:13 thus making void the word of God through your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many things like this."

[weishaupt1776]

That's right, and God had a different M.O for the children of Israel than he did for the rest of the world

You can't hang with the Law, cigs


If you've broken just one commandment in your whole life, your guilty of breaking the whole of it

So salvation can only be by Grace through faith, because you would be guilty of lying, lusting, disobeying your parents, etc . . before a just and holy God otherwise

Christ had to obey the law on your behalf, because you can't

See James 2:10

[Livefire]

The so called Jews couldn't hang with the law either.....
in Christ shall all be made alive.

[Shoonra]

The link in the first message of this thread no longer works. But I am acquainted with early Christian literature and "the Gospel of the Kingdom" and "the Gospel of John the Baptist" are NOT of antiquity. Without knowing more, I would suspect that both of them, like "the Aquarian Gospel" and some other nonsense, are of recent origin.

[Livefire]

Shoonra,

You may know about early Christian literature such as the Didache and Eusebius and other apostolic forefathers, it seems you may need to spend more time in the Sciptures themselves.....Weishaupt is referring to the supposition by one minister that Paul was preaching "another" gospel to the Gentiles which is summed up in Romans chapter 6. Peter was the apostle to the circumcision and the author referred to believes that Peters gospel as preached in Acts 2:38 was strictly for the "Jews" No ancient work is being referred to.

I just found your comment funny, no disrespect intended
:-)

[Shoonra]

In that context (which I didn't know because the link wouldn't work for me) the comment is quite reasonable.

Paul never knew Jesus alive, and may have had only a fragmentary account of Jesus's teachings to work with; he doesn't seem to know anything of the life of Jesus except for the manner of his death. Certainly there is a great deal of doctrine and attitude in the Pauline epistles that cannot be found in the Gospels themselves.

[Livefire]

Paul knew Luke. He would've learned much there. Paul also met Jesus face to face on the road to Damascus! He also went to Arabia and was taught by the Spirit of God in the wilderness for 3 years. If anything, Paul's understanding of the gospel was from a completely different perspective than that of the others due to his extensive knowledge of Torah. This man sat at the feet of Gamaliel the high priest and mastered the Torah. Remember this, all the law and the prophets speak of Yeshua and His Kingdom......I wouldve loved to have been a fly on the wall when He expounded on the Scriptures to those men on the Emmaus road concerning everything about Himself!! Paul gives us an idea of what might've been said.

I will also mention that this apostle also was caught up into 3rd heaven and seen things in that realm that couldnt really be expressed with words. In I Corinthians
15:8-11 Paul says something interesting... And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

This phrase born out of due time is the Greek word ektromah which in this instance figuratively means an abortion (TOO EARLY). This seems to indicate to me that the apostle was a man AHEAD of his time......he was on the scene too early....not as a latecomer!!! Even Peter mentioned "the hard sayings of Paul" and that those who are unlearned and unstable wrestle with them and the other Scriptures to their own destruction.

One also has to remember that Christ spoke in parables deliberately to keep most folks from understanding the kingdom. Paul's focus was to reveal and glorify the risen Christ openly. You would come to the same understanding as Paul if you take the parables of Jesus and apply Torah principles to them. For example the man that owed 10,000 talents and couldnt pay was a picture of Adam incurring the debt of original sin to himself and his estate (all of creation). Go back to Leviticus 25 and apply the principles found therein to the situation and you come up with Romans 6! This why I personally feel Paul wrote Hebrews, altho scholars debate about it. He was about the only one with the prerequisite knowledge concerning the Levitical Priesthood and its pertinent ordinances to compare and contrast it with the more excellent priesthood of Melchizedek (Jesus).

One final example of this....Peter preached Acts 2:38 which is repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Paul deals with this in Romans 5 and 6 in other words but says the same thing.....and if you believe that he also wrote Hebrews, chapter 6 of that book clearly states the foundation of the Christian faith....Repentance from dead works, Faith towards God, Doctrine of baptisms, Laying on of hands, Resurrection of the dead, Eternal judgment. Its a question of perspective.

[Mike Schroeder]

There are not only two gospels in the New Testament section of the Bible (Matthew-The Revelation), but there are two distinct churches (eklesia, i.e., "called out assembly") as well.

The first is the "gospel of the kingdom" (Matt. 4:23),given by Jesus to the 12 disciples, who were the first members of the kingdom church established in Matt. 16:18. This was the same gospel preached by Peter to Israel in the first part of the Acts, viz., "repent and be baptized. for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38) The other gospel is "the gospel of Christ" (Romans 1:16), preached by the Apostle Paul to Jews and Gentiles, forming what he referred to as the church, "the body of Christ."(1 Cor. 12:27). Paul claimed exclusive domain over this gospel, referring to it as "my gospel, the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery" (Romans 16:25) The first recorded (in scripture) preaching of this gospel by Paul was at Antioch in Acts 13. This gospel, briefly stated, proclaims that "Christ died for our sins..was buried...and that he rose again the third day...for our justification...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. (1 Cor. 15:3,4; Rom. 4:25; Acts 16:31)

The attempt by the Christian establishment to blend these two gospels into one, is a failure to obey Paul's clear admonition in 2 Tim. 2:15 to keep them separate.

Go to www.85pagesinthebible.com for a more comprehensive treatment of this subject.